Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

Message
Author
Rusty Tincanne
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 6178
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:07 am
Location: Ithaca, NY

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#101 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

My other thought was a hand axe. Because what is sexier than a guy that can throw an axe!? But a dagger is still slicker to show off by the candle light. :P

So now that I've had a chance to look over the rules again, what would keep me from choosing a left-handed dagger vs a normal dagger?

normal dagger - short blade - damage agility-2 - defensive +1, off-hand +1
left-handed dagger - fencing - damage agility-1 - defensive +2, off-hand +1


The left handed dagger seems better all around. Higher damage, better defensive bonus... Why not take that as my primary weapon? Or is that just meta-gaming?



Edit: Actually, now that I think about it. It seems that he should be equipped with a hand axe and left-handed dagger. Both are fluffy choices for a hunter/survivalist with swagger, and I can try and fight with two weapons that way. Or have an axe to throw in a pinch.

So my final choice is a Castle-Made Left-Handed Dagger. And I'll amend my character sheet to indicate he has a hand axe rather than a woodsman's axe.

Edit 2: If Darryn is using the dagger as part of his seduction of a woman, does that give him a _1 for that intrigue roll? (Yes, that is a serious question. Because you said it gives a +1 to any roll made with it.)

User avatar
Marullus
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 17993
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:41 am

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#102 Post by Marullus »

Rusty,

The important difference is that the Left-Hand Dagger requires a +1B Fencing to use. It is a better weapon but cannot be used without specific training.

#1 - The Fencing Option... Chicks Dig Fencing
You could move a bonus die (perhaps Disguise) to have 1B Fencing. Being an impressive-looking dandy is TOTALLY within scope for this. You would really impress the ladies by whipping out your exotic blades and looking like you know how to use them.

You've only spent 474ss so far. It is 210ss to 1gp, so you have spent 2.2 of your 9 starting gold pieces. You have plenty of money to invest in this.
- You get a standard dagger free as a tool/weapon starting out, anyway.
- You spent 20ss on a left-hand dagger.
- You could spend 800ss on a Bravosi Blade to go with it.
My recommendation: You talked the castle smith into copying the design of a Bravosi Blade and paid him 800ss for it. (The castle-forged is free.) You then paid full price for a matching dagger (double cost from 20ss to 40ss.) You buy all that and your other listed gear and spend 6.1 of your 9gp.

Net Effect:
Your default fighting style is two-weapon fighting. You'd roll 3D+2 (both castle-forged) and 4 damage or have +3 to Combat Defense. (You'd be Fast, so would get +1B to each roll if dividing attack against more than one opponent, but since you have only 3D to divide it isn't really worth doing so.) Your total combat defense in armor would be 12, or 13 if caught naked in some woman's bedroom. That means someone with 2D fighting couldn't touch you if you were parrying.

Summation: It is a damn good show. You whip out a pair of sexy exotic-looking swords to impress the ladies and have the upper hand against any unarmored smallfolk suitor who you need to scare off. Not hugely effective in a hard fight, but you could hold your own and be pretty darn good at not getting hurt with +3 combat defense (your main goal in that situation, I assume). It would be mathmatically impossible for an unskilled smallfolk suitor to mess up your mojo as you effortlessly swat his attacks away and remain uninjured. Nothing messes up a seduction more than bleeding all over the place.

#2 - Lover Not a Fighter
I think your bonus dice are really well-suited to your concept. If you don't want to move any of them, you stick closer to your current option. With no bonus dice in fighting disciplines, you need to stick with untrained weapon options.
  • You can have the woodman's axe for utility and also if you actually wanted to hurt someone. It is 3D, 4 damage for you, and takes two hands. (who castle-forges a wood-axe? I didn't apply that bonus here.)
  • You can have the hand axe with nice dagger in the off-hand. The axe is 3D, 2 damage, or +1 defense. Adding the nice dagger makes it either +2 defense or 3D+1, 3 damage.
  • If you use a hand axe with a nice dirk, that is 3D+1, 4 damage, or +1 defense.
#3 - Compromise...
You could do a Westrosi version of fencing without needing to buy a Fencing point. Take a Longsword in your main hand. That is 3D, 4 damage.
  • Add a nice dagger in your off-hand and you choose 3D+1, 5 damage or +1 defense.
  • Add a nice dirk in your off-hand and you have 3D+1, 6 damage.
Taking actual fencing and exotic-looking weapons, you are much better at not getting yourself hurt (+3 combat defense). But doing it Westrosi-style, you have 6 damage, which means you'd actually be able to be an effective combatant against someone in armor if you had to. As we just learned in our last combat round, armor is a serious factor in this system.

Chicks Dig Weapons
The actual statement for castle-forged quality is "Add +1 to the result of all Fighting or Marksmanship tests." If the GM wants to allow you a sexy-point for it, that's always allowable by his caveat as a situational bonus for your roleplay. :)

Lets look at the descriptions:
DAGGER: A long knife used to stab and pierce, often carried as a tool as much as a weapon
DIRK: A dagger designed for combat with a straight, narrow blade, often used in the off-hand to compliment a primary weapon.
The way I look at it, Daggers are not Sexy. Every person has one and you use it to cut your dinner in a pinch. For Sexy points, I'd go for the custom-forged Dirk.

EDIT:
Slight misunderstanding. Weapon bonuses to Combat Defense only apply on turns where you do not attack. (Brazenly kissing the girl, kicking the door shut, escaping out the window from an angry husband, etc.) I have edited the above to now try to take this into account.

max_vale
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 3974
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#103 Post by max_vale »

Hey Rusty;

Marullus has hit on a lot of the points in terms of the mechanics of the game and choices; but personally; I'd have to say it's almost certainly going to be a regular Dagger (or Dirk). Fencing weapons really aren't Westerosi style.....so unless the smiths have been to/trained by/or ARE Bravosi; it's unlikely they'd have made a Left-hand Dagger. (At least, that's my takeaway from how I view Westeros/Essos/etc.) The Hand-Axe and Dagger/Dirk make a lot of sense for a woodsman/scout type; and learning how to fight with both at once (a Westerosi 'fencer') I think is perfectly reasonable.....I'm thinking of 'Last of the Mohicans' (the 90s movie version with Daniel Day Lewis) here when Hawkeye fights with a long-knife and Tomahawk.....I know it's not the same kind of time-period; but the similar life-style/occupation makes it a good comparison, I think.

As for the part about helping with seduction.....I'd say it could count in SOME cases......somebody who would KNOW about the value of such (I'm thinking daughters/wives/worked with smiths or sellers of weapons and/or the crazy types who get hot over weapons/blood letting) might be impacted by it.....but your average waitress, farm girl, hand-maiden, etc.; probably isn't going to get to woozy over a nicely-made weapon.

Everyone: After several RL combat play-thrus with a couple of friends and now this one going on in this game....I gotta say I'm not really a fan of this game-system's combat rules. I find it too long; too unfair for 'average' fighters vs. skilled opponents; and this is the big one.....I HATE when people have good rolls that are hard to come by completely negated (I'm thinking scoring a hit and having all of the damage absorbed by armor)....so I was wondering how all of you feel about it?

No matter what; we'll play this fight out using the rules; I was just curious if people might not mind some house rules in the future? If not; that's cool; but I'm definitely going to have to have the opposition be more skilled in the future and probably give Keyth some 'not-entirely-by-the-rules-as-written' rapid advancement in Crossbow training.

Thoughts?

Enoch
Ranger Lord
Ranger Lord
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:11 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#104 Post by Enoch »

I honestly don't mind sucking with the crossbow. I was somewhat concerned when I realized that against a high-CD opponent in good armor it would be impossible for a base roll to inflict damage, but there are other actions that are useful (such as Distract, which works off his incredible Cunning, and Aid), and against rabble (such as these, as you pointed out), I can do some damage even against decent armor.

I did purposefully design him more-or-less as a noncombatant, and I'm not sure it's fair to give me better advancement than somebody who did put points into combat skills. Besides, it's very likely that Keyth, once he figures out that combat is going to be a bigger part of his life than he anticipated, will put some effort into learning to defend himself (i.e., I'll sink some of my XP into combat skills--even a single advancement of Marksmanship will make him decent, with a 3D 1B skill).
Shadrach, Demon-Hunter - Dust to Dust

User avatar
Marullus
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 17993
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:41 am

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#105 Post by Marullus »

I actually think the system is elegantly designed.
I find it too long;
Our experience so far against mooks is that it is brutally short. However, against an opponent that takes injuries and wounds, it would indeed be quite long. Long, dramatic, full of twists and turns. That is exactly the balance I usually try to strike in a game. I want those major fights to be dramatic and to really matter, to have the risk of turning abruptly, while unimportant fights move along faster. The mook fights could be even quicker - Burning Wheel, for example, boils down to a single roll called a Bloody Versus test. I've never found that satisfying.

So, at least in theory, I think I like it. I need to see it play out a few times.
too unfair for 'average' fighters vs. skilled opponents;
I see that as a feature, not a bug - this is a world of knights and Lords. Might is Right; governance is drawn from an ability to use unequaled force. Knights with skill and armor are only threatened by other knights with skill and armor. If an "average" commoner could be a threat to a knight, the entire system would be shakey.

That said, the system allows two balancing factors already:
Fear the Masses. The Goldcloaks control Kings Landing. The King is safe with just his Kingsguard. But Joffrey took it for granted... when an entire mob rioted, they tore the knights apart. The Assist action allows a group to combine +1 and +2 values to overcome any individual. Even just eight thugs with 2D Fighting in fleabottom would roll 2D+1B+7 and they could score double or triple damage easily. Should the six spearmen have worked in concert, they could have teamed up on either of us knights and caused one Wound instead of six misses. (Thanks for that, BTW... I appreciate it going a little easier as we learn. The 12-on-3 odds scared me!)

The Destiny-filled Individual. When you want the special individual to strike the lucky blow critical to the story, that is what Destiny Points are for. You can get bonus dice from several sources (as easy as aiming) and then spend a temporary Destiny Point for the chapter to convert it to a regular die. Or a permanent one for +5, automatic success, or to convert ALL bonus dice to regular dice. Keyth can exist as a non-combatant Maester, who is young with lots of Destiny points. He might suck at general combat but might also score the critical blows in any major battle. This is already built into the system - it doesn't require a house rule, just an adjustment by the GM regarding how many Destiny Points he wants the players to have or not have to make things more or less epic.
and this is the big one.....I HATE when people have good rolls that are hard to come by completely negated (I'm thinking scoring a hit and having all of the damage absorbed by armor)
You said you like a d20 model where armor adjusts the attack roll. Lets just think of this that way.

If you don't do enough damage to overcome armor, it just means you need another degree of success. So, instead of thinking "my attacks are all negated" just think "my successful attack roll is just five higher."

Mail armor has AR 5. That negates a lot of weapon's damage. So, instead of a Combat Defense of 6, you can think of it as needing 11. But wait! The same armor gave him a -3 penalty to his Combat Defense. You need +5 to double damage and overpower the armor, but 3 of those points are given free. Every armor penalizes the Combat Defense by half or more of the Armor Value. Once I realized that, it didn't seem as overpowering as I originally thought. Sure, that Knight in full-plate gets 10 subtracted off of each attack. But he is slow and SO easy to hit... his penalty is -6, giving the first full degree of success for free, and then a portion of the next one. I could do normal damage against him unarmored, or I'm on my way to triple damage against him covered in steel.

Again, I think the system has some interesting levels of balance built-in. Or, to turn your argument around... would you have had those good rolls to hit if the armor hadn't given a bonus to mae an easier to-hit roll? It is easier to hit, harder to damage, but slightly easier to do the double or triple damage required.

Just my thoughts. :)

max_vale
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 3974
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#106 Post by max_vale »

Fair enough; different strokes for different folks. As I said; I've played out 4 battles in RL with friends in past couple of weeks and now this on-going one here; and quite simply, it's really not a system for me. If I were to do this all over again; I think I'd try to run this game using the d6 system.

When I say these battles take too 'long' with this system, I mean the number of dice rolls needed AND especially the thought of two skilled opponents going at....that is going to take FOREVER. While I like a little rolling; I do NOT like lots of rolling. While I get the 'Major Villain vs Hero climactic duel' taking a while; I don't necessarily want the 'heroes vs elite bodyguards' per-climactic duel taking forever.

I also do NOT like idea of Knights in armor only being threatened by other Knights in armor. Trained Foot soldiers and ESPECIALLY archers/crossbowmen should be a MAJOR threat to Knights/Warriors in heavy armor. After all; the reason why the Longbow and Crossbow came into such heavy usage (along with Pikes) was directly related to the impact it had on heavy armor. To achieve similar results in the game; said Archers/Crossbowmen would have to have skills of at least 4d or so and 1-3 Bonus dice. I think that's a little silly personally.....but to each their own. Also, I really don't want to have to think "I need to roll 5 higher than this number!".....I just want to think "I have to beat this number".

Yeah; as a non-numbers guy....I don't want to have to think about Combat Defense vs. Armor Penalty vs. levels of success in the roll, and damage depleted from the Armor rating; etc., etc. I'm not a d20 guy (I'm too old for that; I'm a 1st and 2nd edition AD&D guy.....I HATED 3rd edition and later); but I must say; I DO like the simplicity of both early AD&D and d6 (my real favorite RPG system) where armor EITHER makes it harder to hit OR makes it harder to damage.....but not both (in terms of game mechanics). What can I say; I'm simple......I'd rather just have the Combat Defense number be raised and some other kind of penalty for heavy armor come into play (not sure what)....than be easier to hit; but no damage or little damage inflicted. So yes.....I'd be MUCH happier if it was harder to hit; but when hits happen they actually do something (even if that something is simply forcing the character to make a choice of whether to take an injury or not).....just how my brain works, I guess.

Anyway, no matter what; I don't think I'm going to be able to post all the mechanics for every battle in this game as quite simply; it's a tremendous pain in the ass. I will continue to do it for this battle; and MAYBE the next one or two; but after that, I'm going to just get all the decisions from people and then make all the rolls at once on my own and post the results.....MUCH easier and less time-consuming!

How about the rest of you; what are your thoughts?

User avatar
Marullus
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 17993
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:41 am

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#107 Post by Marullus »

Just commenting because you asked. :) You're the boss, and the game runs the way you want it to.

max_vale
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 3974
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#108 Post by max_vale »

No worries; it's cool......I asked and you answered; as I said, different strokes for different folks. I was really just wondering if anyone had similar thoughts to me.

Probably not.....I'm pretty used to being on an island......for example; I'm probably the only fan of naturally brown haired, brown eyed women with no tattoos under the age of 50 who's not particularly religious that I know of. I find tats a HUGE turn-off; and I swear if I see one more woman with beautiful, natural brown hair who has bleached/dyed/streaked/whatever it I think I'll jump thru a window!

Ahem....sorry...back to game stuff! :)

Rusty Tincanne
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 6178
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:07 am
Location: Ithaca, NY

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#109 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

Dang. My nextcharacter was going to be a brunette Tyroshi with purple and blonde streaks with tattoos. :P

I will playwith any system you want. I can see the level of complexity being antithetical for a play by post. You can skip the mechanics thread if you want. How will destiny points be best used in your opinion?

Also, thanks for the input on the weapons. I will take the hand axe and castle-forged dirk option. And thanks to max_vale, i now have that darned last-of-the-mohicans jig in my head!

max_vale
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 3974
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#110 Post by max_vale »

Sorry Rusty; I DO like me some Michael Mann movies! :)

Okay; synth and smoke; last chance to post before the update tonight/tomorrow!

smoke warrior
Tracker
Tracker
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:06 am

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#111 Post by smoke warrior »

I posted what I was doing a while ago.

max_vale
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 3974
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#112 Post by max_vale »

Sorry man; you certainly did. :oops:

Next post is up amigos; along with the mechanics thread. Let me know if I'm missing anything obvious.

max_vale
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 3974
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#113 Post by max_vale »

Rusty; Enoch: any actions?

Next post coming tonight/tomorrow. Everybody still doing okay?

Enoch
Ranger Lord
Ranger Lord
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:11 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#114 Post by Enoch »

I'll keep shooting.
Shadrach, Demon-Hunter - Dust to Dust

Synthalus
Ranger
Ranger
Posts: 886
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:14 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#115 Post by Synthalus »

Im doing alright. I can speak for everyone else. Heck yeah keep the story posts coming, they are very well written. Ser Gannis Valmont will boldly stand his ground against the bandit onslaught.
"that is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons death may die"

-H.P. Lovecraft

max_vale
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 3974
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#116 Post by max_vale »

Sorry for the delay people; I'm not feeling too good tonight…..I'll put up the next post tomorrow…sorry

Synthalus
Ranger
Ranger
Posts: 886
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:14 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#117 Post by Synthalus »

get well soon!
"that is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons death may die"

-H.P. Lovecraft

max_vale
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 3974
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#118 Post by max_vale »

Thanks Synth…..I'm feeling better….not all-the-way back yet; but MUCH better than the last couple of days.

Okay; the next post is up and the first battle is done. Everybody still doing okay?

Rusty Tincanne
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 6178
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:07 am
Location: Ithaca, NY

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#119 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

Back from vacation! Always nice to have a bunch of posts to read at once. :)

Darryn can track our assailants if none are still living enough to answer questions. If we have someone alive to question, he will retrieve his arrows, gather any other arrows around and throw the bows into the wagon for later use (training guards, trading, etc).

max_vale
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 3974
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

#120 Post by max_vale »

Sorry for the delay; next post coming tomorrow.

Post Reply

Return to “Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine”