Strategy talk

[rredmond]

It is assumed that the PCs know each other well and have adventures together before. This is OOC strategy talk that effectively takes no time in game. I may merge with OOC thread, but it may be useful to keep separate.

[Argennian]

Since I absoutely love Strategy Threads, figured I'd get my first post in here straight away!

In regards to M.O. (marching order), I know we're currently discussing that in the Standing Orders thread, but wanted to offer a few ideas/opinions.

~ I would vote to be able to have our thief do Hear Noise/Listen Checks whenever possible, especially at all doors and intersections. Checking for traps should be utilized whenever possible as well, and if for some reason the thief cannot detect a trap where we strongly suspect there could/might be one, the cleric (Karraway) has a Find Traps spell memorized.

~ Also not sure how Ron would adjudicate the Ranger innate ability to avoid surprise in regards to his position in the M.O. If Freda needs to be closer to the front to get the full benefit of this, I say we do so. Some spartan DMs (such as myself) would adjucate that a ranger in the last rank or rearguard would not be able to utilize this component of the class if those in the front rank bump into something unawares (distance/relative background noise taken into effect, of course). Just my 2 coppers on that.

~ I also like the idea of having the dwarf and halfling in the front rank and taller PCs in the 2nd row being able to use ranged melee attacks over their heads. There are situations where this wouldn't work obviously, but it's a damn good idea and would be great to consider having the 2 PCs in the front row be aware and agreed upon this tactic, potentially going prone or hugging the walls if they see a scenario beneficial for just such an application. Another 2 coppers I guess...

~ If our party is discovered and a parley takes place, I say we all need to sing the same song, something like the 'ol "looking for escaped slaves" or perhaps something of the like. The fact that there are many different groups of adventurers within the port city will work to our benefit regardless but having some prepared default "stories" or "reasons" for being wherever we are if discovered could give us the edge/break/time we need to analyze and act. Another 2 coppers!

Well, runnin outa coppers and me phone's about to die so I'll see what you all think. Any thoughts/ideas??


Edit: spelling!

[ToniXX]

I agree that the dwarf and halfling should be in the front ranks so that missile attacks can happen over their heads. Also, this would put the halfling in position to listen/find traps/etc. But I do see the point regarding the ranger. These are my two coppers

[Alethan]

If the ranger is in the rear, then there is less of a chance of being surprised from behind! Ah ha!

Unfortunately, we can't have three people in the two by two front rank.



"Well, now, uh, Lancelot, Galahad, and I, wait until nightfall, and then leap out of the rabbit, taking the French by surprise - not only by surprise, but totally unarmed!"

"Wait, who?"

"Uh, Lancelot, Galahad... and, uh..."

[rredmond]

You were just writing what I was thinking.

If we have a Ranger in the front rank, does that mean a rear-attack doesn't get their bonus? OSRIC doesn't clarify. Let me check my handy dandy PHB when I get home and get back to you. I can see both sides of the copper piece as it were.

[Knight of Gondor]

Just checking in so I get a notification from this thread. I am good with any marching order with my magic-user either last or second from last.

[Argennian]

... If we have a Ranger in the front rank, does that mean a rear-attack doesn't get their bonus? OSRIC doesn't clarify. Let me check my handy dandy PHB when I get home and get back to you. I can see both sides of the copper piece as it were.

This is one of those ambiguous gems of 1E. IIRC, in 1E, a ranger is only surprised on a 1 in 6 on a surprise roll and will surprise 50% of the time (3 in 6). It's the interpretation and adjudication of what that caveat encompasses that has been an issue I've had to deal with on numerous occassions. I've had many players try and abuse the heck out of this and it's one of the reasons I, as a DM, set the ground rules for such ahead of time. I'll list a couple of common examples I've seen/dealt with below.

Disclaimer: **Note: I'm totally understanding that this is Ron's game and that ultimately, it's his call that matters!**


Does a Ranger get their surprise bonus if:

1. the party is grouped close together and creeping along, everyone ready/aware? A: Absolutely yes (especially with a small party).

2. the ranger is in rearguard and either around a corner or back more than 90' and the party is surprised at the front? A: I'd say no (even if he/she sensed/heard/felt something, there'd be no time to do anything about it, realistically)

3. the ranger is concentrating on something else, i.e. going through a backpack/chest/through a dead baddies belongings, checking a door/lock/whatever, etc. and not staying fully "aware" of his/her surroundings? A: I'd say no (again this could be conditional)

4. the ranger is sleeping? A: Absolutely not! (would I rule them a light-sleeper though? Sure! )


These are just a few examples that exemplify what I was alluding to. I don't mean to come off as a rules lawyer or as someone trying to over-complicate things. In retrospect, perhaps I should have just kept my mouth shut and just let Ron do his thing. (sigh ) As stated, it's ultimately his call, not mine. I guess, more than anything, I just wanted to make sure we covered our bases going forward and didn't miss any detail(s) that could end up biting us in the rear.

Ok, so now I'm all out of coppers and my phone is going to die again. Good night all!


Edit: correction/clarification/apology

[rredmond]

...
Edit: correction/clarification/apology

You silly man!

Anyways, course 1E in all it's glory didn't stipulate! We'll say for Marching Order purposes the ranger helps everyone be less surprised from the first or second rank (for full frontal surprise) or the last, or next to last for rear attacks. Any deeper in the MO then you all muck her up!

All other such rulings will be made "on the fly" as it were, depending on the situation. This way you can all strategize the best way you want to do things, and in what situations Till's character may be up front.

Speaking of surprise, back to the Legacy game where surprise just got interesting...

[dmw71]

~ I would vote to be able to have our thief do Hear Noise/Listen Checks whenever possible, especially at all doors and intersections. Checking for traps should be utilized whenever possible as well, and if for some reason the thief cannot detect a trap where we strongly suspect there could/might be one, the cleric (Karraway) has a Find Traps spell memorized.

Absolutely! I am all for taking the necessary steps to minimize the risks of damage from non-combat situations... especially with only one cleric in the party (why waste healing spells unnecessarily?).

~ I also like the idea of having the dwarf and halfling in the front rank and taller PCs in the 2nd row being able to use ranged melee attacks over their heads. There are situations where this wouldn't work obviously, but it's a damn good idea and would be great to consider having the 2 PCs in the front row be aware and agreed upon this tactic, potentially going prone or hugging the walls if they see a scenario beneficial for just such an application.

I just checked, and Blodgett, our halfling, is a mere three feet tall, while Elwita is almost a foot taller at 3'10". Still, I think having an understood tactic (e.g. kneeling, ducking, lying prone) while monsters are detected in the distance is a solid idea. I do know that Elwita also has a heavy crossbow and Blodgett has a sling.

Can these weapons be used (by a dwarf and halfling respectively) from a kneeling position?

~ If our party is discovered and a parley takes place, I say we all need to sing the same song, something like the 'ol "looking for escaped slaves" or perhaps something of the like. The fact that there are many different groups of adventurers within the port city will work to our benefit regardless but having some prepared default "stories" or "reasons" for being wherever we are if discovered could give us the edge/break/time we need to analyze and act.

Given the game background and our objective, I agree that our story should be slave-related. Given we're in Highport, which is/was primarily a human city, perhaps one of our human characters (anyone not Elwita or Blodgett) had a family member taken and has hired the rest of us as part of a rescue party? I'm open to anything, but believe we should keep the story simple.

[rredmond]

Honestly I didn't think about this game going on for more than one in-game day. But as for XP, spell books and the like, I'm going to have to figure it out for sure, but luckily it's not critical to game start!

...
Can these weapons be used (by a dwarf and halfling respectively) from a kneeling position?
...

I'd say crossbow yes (as long as it were loaded already) and sling no. Then there'll be penalties to AC for not being mobile too, unless you are kneeling behind cover.

[rredmond]

Updated the Maps thread.

[dmw71]

A few thoughts clipped from the Game Backgrounds and Maps post:

Highport was once a human city, but the land and town have been overrun by humanoids - orcs, goblins, kobolds, ogres, and gnolls.

This fact requires singling out considering Elwita considers orcs and goblins as hated enemies and may require some additional "encouragement" while trying to restrain herself when facing these creatures in public -- unless, of course, the objective is combat, in which case, look out. (On a positive note, she does get +1 to hit them; and ogres have -4 to hit her).

Your party, provided with transport, has managed to arrive in Highport and pose as one of these groups come to deal.
Your mission is to use the secret entrance (which location is provided to you by an escaped slave) and crush the organization by killing it's leaders, and freeing any slaves that you find.
...
At night you can see it would be easy to get the whole party right up to that (secret) door, and get in without being noticed - as long as you are careful. You all notice, by the light glow of any magic weapons, that the 5' wide hallway is but 10' long...

It was already revealed that the doorway opens into a 5' wide hallway which is only 10' long... but what's at the end of that ten feet?

Having listened for noise and not hearing any, I would suggest the entire party quickly, but cautiously file into this hallway (using our pre-defined marching orders for 5' wide corridors, below) and enter the temple... no need getting noticed in this secret location by a randomly patrolling guard.

Code: Select all

5' Wide Corridor
[B] Blodgett
[E] Elwita
[F] Freda
[O] Ogre
[P] Phanstern 
[D] Dread
[K] Karraway 

Before officially posting anything in the 'Action' thread, I wanted to make sure there weren't any objections?

Also, we should decide upon our official "story" should we ever become discovered and a parley takes place, per Argennian's suggestion, earlier in this thread.

[dmw71]

...but what's at the end of that ten feet?

Apparently I needed to read the 'Action' thread more carefully. I assumed Blodgett's "hear noise" check was for the outside entrance to the temple, and not another secret door after we're already inside. D'oh!

At the end of this 10’ long passage is what is obviously the back of a secret door. Constructed to look as if it were part of the wall to those on the other side, no attempt has been made to disguise the presence of the door from this side. Light from the other side faintly outlines the door, and there is a handle to pull the door open.

Ogre's sword gives about 20' radius of light, which is enough in this cramped space. And the door is outlined in light, so it may be that no torch is needed. But next step is up to you all.

Based upon this, the question we're facing now is:

What do we do about the door?

I think the first thing that we should do is have Blodgett inspect the handle for traps. If we are meant to pull the handle, it obviously opens outwards -- towards us -- so, assuming we don't find/disarm any traps, my suggestion would be for someone with decent strength and dexterity (Freda, perhaps?) to try to quietly crack the door open; enough for us to get a look inside, but not enough to draw attention to ourselves (which would mean that we should probably conceal all light sources beforehand).

[ToniXX]

I think the first thing that we should do is have Blodgett inspect the handle for traps.

Agreed. Say the word and I'll make it official, but let's get other opinions before.

[dmw71]

I think the first thing that we should do is have Blodgett inspect the handle for traps.

Agreed. Say the word and I'll make it official, but let's get other opinions before.

Seeing as how there's probably little harm that can come from actually checking for traps, I'm of the belief that inspecting doors and locks should become a "standing order," if you will; something that we will do at every opportunity.

If detail as to how Blodgett actually performs his inspection is required, that detail can be provided on a case-by-case basis.

[Alethan]

In this case, since you're suggesting Freda open the door, I'm fine with that if you want me to do that after the rogue does his thing.

I think, in general, secret doors are probably rarely trapped.

I also personally give our team leader permission to make most decisions without my input when it comes to things like decided if we should check a door for traps or not. (That's just for me; obviously I can't give permission for the other members of the team.)

If we wait for input from all 7-8 players for things like that, it will take us for-e-ver to do the most basic of actions.

So, unless it is an action that will directly involve my character making a decision, I'm fine with the caller/party leader going with what he thinks is best. Or, I'm fine with everyone giving input as to what our default actions should be in certain situations so we don't have to ask for everyone's input all the time.

With that in mind, here are my votes:
All Doors - Listen for any sound from the other side.
If at a door in a well-used area - Probably not any need to check for traps.
If at a door in a seldom-used area (dust on the floors or door itself) - Probably should check for traps.
Story: We just returned from a successful "tax collecting" mission for the boss and have a few days of R&R before we go out again.

[migellito]

In this case, since you're suggesting Freda open the door, I'm fine with that if you want me to do that after the rogue does his thing.

I think, in general, secret doors are probably rarely trapped.

I also personally give our team leader permission to make most decisions without my input when it comes to things like decided if we should check a door for traps or not. (That's just for me; obviously I can't give permission for the other members of the team.)

If we wait for input from all 7-8 players for things like that, it will take us for-e-ver to do the most basic of actions.

So, unless it is an action that will directly involve my character making a decision, I'm fine with the caller/party leader going with what he thinks is best. Or, I'm fine with everyone giving input as to what our default actions should be in certain situations so we don't have to ask for everyone's input all the time.

With that in mind, here are my votes:
All Doors - Listen for any sound from the other side.
If at a door in a well-used area - Probably not any need to check for traps.
If at a door in a seldom-used area (dust on the floors or door itself) - Probably should check for traps.
Story: We just returned from a successful "tax collecting" mission for the boss and have a few days of R&R before we go out again.

This works for me as well

[dmw71]

You make some great points.

If we wait for input from all 7-8 players for things like that, it will take us for-e-ver to do the most basic of actions.

This is my first play-by-post game so I guess I never really considered that. While I think this party has been pretty steady in its posts, I can see where waiting for a consensus at every opportunity would cause unnecessary delays.

With that in mind, here are my votes:
All Doors - Listen for any sound from the other side.
If at a door in a well-used area - Probably not any need to check for traps.
If at a door in a seldom-used area (dust on the floors or door itself) - Probably should check for traps.
Story: We just returned from a successful "tax collecting" mission for the boss and have a few days of R&R before we go out again.

Agreed.


Considering we decided having a formal team "leader" would be unnecessary, should we simply agree that any player can decide what their character is going to do concerning common/simple tasks such as listening at a door, inspecting for a trap, etc...?

[Knight of Gondor]

So, unless it is an action that will directly involve my character making a decision, I'm fine with the caller/party leader going with what he thinks is best. Or, I'm fine with everyone giving input as to what our default actions should be in certain situations so we don't have to ask for everyone's input all the time.

Aye

With that in mind, here are my votes:
All Doors - Listen for any sound from the other side.
If at a door in a well-used area - Probably not any need to check for traps.
If at a door in a seldom-used area (dust on the floors or door itself) - Probably should check for traps.

Also aye.

[Argennian]

You make some great points.

If we wait for input from all 7-8 players for things like that, it will take us for-e-ver to do the most basic of actions.

This is my first play-by-post game so I guess I never really considered that. While I think this party has been pretty steady in its posts, I can see where waiting for a consensus at every opportunity would cause unnecessary delays.

With that in mind, here are my votes:
All Doors - Listen for any sound from the other side.
If at a door in a well-used area - Probably not any need to check for traps.
If at a door in a seldom-used area (dust on the floors or door itself) - Probably should check for traps.
Story: We just returned from a successful "tax collecting" mission for the boss and have a few days of R&R before we go out again.

Agreed.


Considering we decided having a formal team "leader" would be unnecessary, should we simply agree that any player can decide what their character is going to do concerning common/simple tasks such as listening at a door, inspecting for a trap, etc...?

I am good with this going forward as well and agree that we don't have the time to discuss every caveat of every maneuver with the entire group. Since my PC is in rearguard, he'll have to rely on the frontline PCs to make the decisions on how we move forward.


I would just ask that other than mundane technicals that move us forward as a party, that everyone gets a chance to register a yea/nay/opinion on potentially important decisions concerning the party!