Character Sheets

[Q.Q Elf]

Another thing I'm looking for, GreyWolfVT, is "Raiment". Just a simple article of clothing that identifies your Dwarf, like a "Robe and Wizard Hat".

If you look at the other characters, you can get ideas.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

The demo character for the Dwarf has a "Sky blue hood" (like Thorin Oakenshield). You don't need a hood, and your Raiment could be different. It's just a bit of flavor, like an epithet in the Iliad. "Rhododactylos Eos" (Rosy-fingered Dawn), "Glaukopis Athene" (bright-eyed Athena), "Darmok, at Tanagra."

No tricks to this one. It's purely a literary device.

[GreyWolfVT]

are we saying description then or just what he wears?? I am a bit confused.

[Q.Q Elf]

are we saying description then or just what he wears?? I am a bit confused.

It's specifically what he wears, although it should be descriptive and distinctive in some way... so, not just "a hood", but a "Sky blue hood".

[GreyWolfVT]

Well if it helps any I already had an idea for what Horris looks like and how he dresses. When I picture how I am making Horris he is like the following image from the Hobbit.

[Keehnelf]

Maybe make your raiment "elaborate wrought-iron beard buckles"?

[GreyWolfVT]

the most elaborate part of my look sure.

[Keehnelf]

It stands out as the most distinctive to me, looking at that picture

[GreyWolfVT]

that is what I changed it to.

[Q.Q Elf]

Fighting for the good of the land and to help the holier than thou party members

A bit too high level. Dial it down to a game session, or a day or two in the game world.

Here are samples (a combination of stuff from the book, and things I thought of, based on other adventures).

• "I will determine what happened to the Innkeeper and his guests."
• "I won't let this city fall to the Dragon." (assuming the Dragon's attack is imminent, and not a far-off thing)
• "I will drive out the evil that has overtaken the ruined temple."
• "I will discover the source of the strange lights in the old mansion."

Of course, our problem, for Keep on the Borderlands, is that the dungeon is not a one-piece event that we can solve in a single session. It's the Caves of Chaos, not the Cave of Chaos... so the standard Torchbearer, "I will clear the dungeon" Goal does not work very well.

The Hound saying, "I'm going to eat every f*cking chicken in this room" is not a great Goal (too short a time period), but it's closer to what we're looking for here.

This might work better for the Hound (just prior to the Red Wedding): "I will take the Wolf girl to her c*nt mother and her c*nt brother, and claim my reward."

So, any more thoughts on a Goal?

This is not the sort of system where passive players get ahead. D&D allows you to sit back and only act when acted upon (combat), but it doesn't work in Torchbearer. Your job is to railroad the Gamemaster, not the other way around.

[GreyWolfVT]

I gave all my thought on a goal and have no more ideas.

[Q.Q Elf]

I gave all my thought on a goal and have no more ideas.

Okay, I'll fill it in... but don't be lulled into thinking that will be a choice going forward.

To quote Cotar-Fomas Faith: There is only the river of fire.
You will burn whether you choose or do not choose.

[Q.Q Elf]

One more, GreyWolfVT... Belief.

We haven't chosen one for Horris. This is much more critical than Goal, and if you cannot say something characterful that Horris believes in, then he will be gimped.

I'd entertain a "fame and fortune" Belief if it actually came out in the roleplaying you've done... but I don't know that you think it's true, at least not in the way your are personifying Horris.

What does Horris fight for?
What can you say about Horris as an adventurer? Why does he want to go out into the dark? It's not a trick question.

Look at the group's Beliefs... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

I can't write this for you... you must be able to say something about what Horris believes in that will advance him as a character, and not just a standard, "I will be famous and rich some day," unless you REALLY want to play Horris that way.

If you don't personify what Horris believes (really 100% commit to roleplaying this way like a mo-fo), then you're screwed as a player in this kind of game. I can't say this any plainer.

EDIT: YES, I am trying to pick a fight. You need to fight for what you believe in!

[GreyWolfVT]

Fighting to live another day fighting to help the innocent but wise enough to know when I am in over my head..... tired as hell so can't say that what I am typing makes entire sense. I am just rolling out ideas as I have them. I am begining to seriously doubt that I am capable of a game of this nature to be quite frank.

[Q.Q Elf]

Fighting to live another day fighting to help the innocent but wise enough to know when I am in over my head..... tired as hell so can't say that what I am typing makes entire sense. I am just rolling out ideas as I have them. I am begining to seriously doubt that I am capable of a game of this nature to be quite frank.

Yes, we've all been there. It's a different style of roleplaying, to roll with the Burning Wheel. It demands 100% commitment to a character and that character's way of being. Eventually, it's natural, but it's totally foreign from other game systems... and I know because I have been there.

That's the only way to traverse the River of Fire, which is the path of life that we all walk on as gamers... You must commit completely to it, and to give yourself over to your character. This is the only way to advance your character in Torchbearer... to challenge your Belief system, over and over again. To submit yourself to the Fire, over and over... to the crucible of creation.

In the end, being a good D&D player helps other kinds of roleplaying through thoughtful planning, measured action, and freeform characterization.

However, if you stick it out with Torchbearer (and Burning Wheel games), I think you will learn to be a better D&D player. Belief, making the hard choices for a characterization, and personal growth through submitting belief to the fires of conflict.

Ok, enough blah blah from me... let me ponder what you've said & see if I can think of more creative suggestions...

[Q.Q Elf]

Fighting to live another day fighting to help the innocent but wise enough to know when I am in over my head..... tired as hell so can't say that what I am typing makes entire sense. I am just rolling out ideas as I have them. I am begining to seriously doubt that I am capable of a game of this nature to be quite frank.

Let's break it down, then. Not one thing, but multiple things. I could come up with a statement, but I don't know you well enough to make it useful for you.

Tell me 5 qualities that make a true Dwarf, in your manner of playing Dwarves. And then tell me 5 things that a Dwarf would never do.

This should give us something to distill a Belief from.

[GreyWolfVT]

So 5 qualities in a dwarf that I play.... alright and 5 things a dwarf would never do.

Never Do:
1. Get into a physical fight with a fellow "party member"
2. Charge head long into a battle without a plan.
3. Harm a lady.
4. Kill for the sake of killing.
5. Steal from anyone ever (unless I was a thief.)

Qualities:
1. Generally level headed.
2. Often tries to be charming to the ladies.
3. Will protect his friends no matter what.
4. Will fight to protect good natured beings.
5. Honor bound to other ancient races more so than to the younger races. Generally has a much higher respect for the ancient races.

[Q.Q Elf]

Cool. Those are all good. I should have asked for those things first. Figuring out which questions to ask is half the battle.

So I have a picture of a person who is slow to anger, and someone who wants to plan before doing. I think we are mostly there with the Instinct "Always consider the alternatives." I'm not sure we are 100% of the way there. Considering the alternatives is broader, and you'll have to interject when the Paladin chooses to do something. It also means no quick actions. It all needs to be thought through.

Of course, it's not a useful instinct. It's a contrarian one that isn't a help, like finding water before camp or keeping the torch lit.

So I'm thinking we move the level-headed concept into a Belief, and then reform the Instinct into a classic, "if X happens, always do Y"... but I haven't had my first coffee yet, so I'm not 100% functional.

[GreyWolfVT]

I did forget one thing I do sometimes manage to make a Dwarf into is stubborn. Which does counter some of my above list. If a party member is so dead set in doing something stupid he will let them do it but if he has to go back and drag them to safety he will if it saves their lives.

[GreyWolfVT]

I did add two things into beliefs still not sure how well they work for what is needed of me here. I did draw some inspiration for them based on Keehnelf's belief.

• If the elder races don't work together chaos will corrupt these lands.
  The younger races lack wisdom of the elder races.

[Q.Q Elf]

I did add two things into beliefs still not sure how well they work for what is needed of me here. I did draw some inspiration for them based on Keehnelf's belief.

• If the elder races don't work together chaos will corrupt these lands.
  The younger races lack wisdom of the elder races.

Both of those are very good. You want things that will drive a nail right into the middle of the sky, and make for drama.

For the second one, I might add, "The younger races lack the wisdom of their elders and must be restrained to save them from their worst tendencies." It'll bump right into sulldawga and Simon, but in a cool way because it's all about character.

To use that, you can earn a Fate point by Acting on Your Belief... i.e. get right into the faces of Marodin or Ahmad when they suggest something that Horris disagrees with. You can earn a Persona by playing against the Belief... which is harder, but you need to show Horris struggling with a situation where he really wants to confront Marodin or Ahmad about a stupid Secondborn decision (which will likely lead to the ruin of the entire party)... and show how Horris accepts Marodin or Ahmad's choice as his own.

...

OR the cooperative one about the Elder races working together... you're going to have to run Horris as the Gimli to Keehnelf's Legolas. Are you ready to do that?

Actually, you're going to have to agree a lot more with this Belief in order to earn Fate points. You'll end up being co-pilot on Erinas' decisions to earn Fate, and then struggle to disagree with Erinas to earn Persona.

...

Anyway, great choices. I think they are, in effect, two very OPPOSITE choices for Beliefs. It all depends on how you like to play.

For myself, I think it's easier to be the curmudgeon for Fate, and then struggle to agree in order to gain Persona.