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For a while as a houserule I played D&D2E using a simple point system.

Basically a 1st-level spell cost 1 point, 2nd-level cost 2 and so on. Similarly your spell allowance was translated into points. Thus, if you were a 5th level mage you had 3*lvl1 + 2*lvl2 + 1*lvl3 = (3+4+3) = 11 points.

Spells (that you knew) could be cast spontaneously from the pool. Hence, the mage mentioned above could cast three level 3 spells and one level 1 spell, or 4 level 2 spells and 3 level 1 spells, or whatever, in a day. All points were recovered after sleeping.

I did this because the whole Vancian magic thing had a major problem - in an already combat-oriented game, the fact that spells had to be prepared in advance meant that people only ever took a small selection of spells, generally:

level 1) As many color sprays as they could memorize
level 2) As many acid arrows (or Aganazzar's Scorchers or whatever) as they could memorize
level 3) As many fireballs as they could memorize

and so on, making the mage really dull. When a 2E mage gets up in the morning, the first thing they think about is that a housecat of equivalent level might kill them. So, when they're memorizing their spells they tend to prioritize damage above all else. Spells like Wizard Mark, Audible Glamour, Nystul's Magic Aura, they never happen.

By contrast when the mage can react, they use those spells much more frequently. (Knew one guy who would blow a spell point to make a fanfare when he introduced himself.) So it offers several bonuses for a DM:
- People actually roleplay as mages instead of acting like a gun turret
- Situational spells like Wizard Lock actually ever get used
- The idea of "spell energy" has a lot of potential for other purposes

Has anyone else tried this?

Spiderdown wrote:Has anyone else tried this?

Not yet.

I think it's a really cool idea, so consider it likely stolen borrowed. I'm actually in the process of creating the rules for an upcoming 2E game and this post came at a perfect time as I'm planning on re-working what I had already come up with for the different classes in a couple hours while on my commute home.

Thanks for sharing.

Spiderdown wrote:Basically a 1st-level spell cost 1 point, 2nd-level cost 2 and so on. Similarly your spell allowance was translated into points. Thus, if you were a 5th level mage you had 3*lvl1 + 2*lvl2 + 1*lvl3 = (3+4+3) = 11 points.

Spells (that you knew) could be cast spontaneously from the pool. Hence, the mage...

Question: Did you also apply these casting points to clerics? The by-the-book rules for clerics are almost like your house rule, but the pool of points would allow the cleric more freedom as well.

For instance, a 3rd level cleric (1st: x2, 2nd: x1) would have 4 points. By applying your rule, the cleric could cast four 1st level spells instead of being limited to two (which could matter since there's no 2nd level 'cure' spell).

I've been thinking about this since first reading your post and I dig it, but will likely also extend the point system to the other casting classes as well.


Thanks, again!

Spiderdown wrote:For a while as a houserule I played D&D2E using a simple point system.

Basically a 1st-level spell cost 1 point, 2nd-level cost 2 and so on. Similarly your spell allowance was translated into points. Thus, if you were a 5th level mage you had 3*lvl1 + 2*lvl2 + 1*lvl3 = (3+4+3) = 11 points.

Spells (that you knew) could be cast spontaneously from the pool. Hence, the mage mentioned above could cast three level 3 spells and one level 1 spell, or 4 level 2 spells and 3 level 1 spells, or whatever, in a day. All points were recovered after sleeping.

I did this because the whole Vancian magic thing had a major problem - in an already combat-oriented game, the fact that spells had to be prepared in advance meant that people only ever took a small selection of spells, generally:

level 1) As many color sprays as they could memorize
level 2) As many acid arrows (or Aganazzar's Scorchers or whatever) as they could memorize
level 3) As many fireballs as they could memorize

and so on, making the mage really dull. When a 2E mage gets up in the morning, the first thing they think about is that a housecat of equivalent level might kill them. So, when they're memorizing their spells they tend to prioritize damage above all else. Spells like Wizard Mark, Audible Glamour, Nystul's Magic Aura, they never happen.

By contrast when the mage can react, they use those spells much more frequently. (Knew one guy who would blow a spell point to make a fanfare when he introduced himself.) So it offers several bonuses for a DM:
- People actually roleplay as mages instead of acting like a gun turret
- Situational spells like Wizard Lock actually ever get used
- The idea of "spell energy" has a lot of potential for other purposes

Has anyone else tried this?

An interesting spell system indeed, definitely allows for further use of less-acquainted spells out there (those that don't see much use). And for those that multi-class using this system, oh the possibilities....

I used a point system for years with AD&D 1st and 2nd and loved it. You are correct that it opens up spells that are never memorized. Ever since I was 12 I hated the memorizing mechanics.
This also allows for "Mana Potions " and Rolemasters "Spell Adders" which are items that add spell points.

I actually just discovered that there is a point system introduced in the 'Player's Option: Spells and Magic' rule book.

Player's Option: Spells and Magic > Chapter 6: Magic > The Spell Point System
Player's Option: Spells and Magic > Chapter 6: Magic > Priests and Spell Points


I plan on reading through it tonight/tomorrow and coming up with a spell point system for any future games I run.

Spells & Magic Options is a good system, but I bet you can make it better.

In the 3e version of Unearthed Arcana there was a spell point variant that worked this way. I much preferred it to Vancian Magic. It really did encourage the use of the non- combat type spells. The could spend points to "boost" the spell level too (cast a spell at a higher level than their class level)

We even used a "spellburn" type mechanic (like the DCC RPG ) in that if a wizard was low or out of spell points they could use 'spend' constitution points, which would cause permanent stat lost. I remember our wizard almost burning his CON to nothing to cast a super power fireball that wiped out a whole horde of goblins. good times....good times.

The BRP (Basic Roleplaying) system I'm running in both PnP and PbP uses a spell point system that allows you to over charge spells by adding additional magic points to it. A little slice of awesome pie. I've worked out some house rules for this that will allow little additions, like DnD 3.5 feats.
I call them tricks but the jist is when you have so many skill points you learn these tricks.
Like Silent Spell: for an additional magic point you may cast the spell without verbals.
Enlarge Spell: For cost of +x.5 magic points the area off effect is double.
Maximize Spell: : For cost of +x.5 magic points the spell has all random factors, like damage, maximized.
The possibilities are staggering.

Each of these tricks have prerequisites, like so much skill and/or other lesser tricks, so it's not a free for all. But If a caster pays the price and specializes they can eventually become mighty.

The spending CON points to power spells is brilliant!

I'd like to we came up with the CON thing but I'm pretty sure it was in unearthed arcana....

I remember trying to come up a spell point system that let you build spells on the fly....you could learn a basic spell like "burst", and then spend points to make it fire or cold or electricity. Same with a "arrow" spell. Seemed more magical to me than the standard DnD spell ( I hadn't run Vance as a kid)

Never did get it to work right....was way to complicated and it didn't work right for non combat spells.

I've played with the same group for over 20-years. We found a spell point home rule on the internet, back in the mid-90's, very similar to these systems (I think the site was called "Larry's AD&D Rules or something similar).

We will never go back to Vancian. We use it for both Clerics and Magic-Users. I do require magic-users to roll and see if they know/understand the spell.

We found it allowed for very creative use of non-combat spells that would normally not be memorized.

dmw71 wrote:

Spiderdown wrote:Basically a 1st-level spell cost 1 point, 2nd-level cost 2 and so on. Similarly your spell allowance was translated into points. Thus, if you were a 5th level mage you had 3*lvl1 + 2*lvl2 + 1*lvl3 = (3+4+3) = 11 points.

Spells (that you knew) could be cast spontaneously from the pool. Hence, the mage...

Question: Did you also apply these casting points to clerics? The by-the-book rules for clerics are almost like your house rule, but the pool of points would allow the cleric more freedom as well.

For instance, a 3rd level cleric (1st: x2, 2nd: x1) would have 4 points. By applying your rule, the cleric could cast four 1st level spells instead of being limited to two (which could matter since there's no 2nd level 'cure' spell).

I've been thinking about this since first reading your post and I dig it, but will likely also extend the point system to the other casting classes as well.


Thanks, again!

I didn't apply them to clerics mostly for balance - clerics get many bonus spells from high WIS in D&D2E and mages don't get any bonus spells from high INT. At the same time, trying to balance 2E is a fool's game and there's no reason why the system can't be used for all spellcasters.

Palladium Fantasy used a spellpoint system and I liked their magic system a lot, but that system has other issues...

I've used mana for years and my clerics perform "miracles."