The Unseen Servant forums

Hey now I liked the newer Dr. Who show. Also it appears I am just one man on one side. Everyone else wishes to say I am wrong therefore I am wrong.

GreyWolfVT wrote:Hey now I liked the newer Dr. Who show. Also it appears I am just one man on one side. Everyone else wishes to say I am wrong therefore I am wrong.

nows he's getting it!

Evil parties can and do exist. Party bonds form out of love, list, friendship (love again?), duty, familiarity, insecurity, and jealousy. They aren't always about finding a wizard to complement the rest of the group, it's usually about finding a wizard you can stand to complement the group.

Chaotic evil can be a rampaging demon, but it can also be the neurotic, clingy, jealous and insecure person who actually will kill when someone causes their friend/lover trouble instead of just getting upset. Lawful evil can be the lawyer tyrant, but it could also be the person who is philosophically inclined to believe entropy always wins so better to be on the winning side, along with his friends and loved ones, and just enjoy it while he can. Neutral evil benefits from having the widest immediate range of reasons to be with other people and stay loyal; they seem the most capable of being human instead of caricatures.

Social bonds are big, especially for evil, because backstabbing is rife and fallout common; you want to be really good at feeling out people and even better at keeping those who mean to do good by you.

Hrafn wrote:Evil parties can and do exist. Party bonds form out of love, list, friendship (love again?), duty, familiarity, insecurity, and jealousy. They aren't always about finding a wizard to complement the rest of the group, it's usually about finding a wizard you can stand to complement the group.

Chaotic evil can be a rampaging demon, but it can also be the neurotic, clingy, jealous and insecure person who actually will kill when someone causes their friend/lover trouble instead of just getting upset. Lawful evil can be the lawyer tyrant, but it could also be the person who is philosophically inclined to believe entropy always wins so better to be on the winning side, along with his friends and loved ones, and just enjoy it while he can. Neutral evil benefits from having the widest immediate range of reasons to be with other people and stay loyal; they seem the most capable of being human instead of caricatures.

Social bonds are big, especially for evil, because backstabbing is rife and fallout common; you want to be really good at feeling out people and even better at keeping those who mean to do good by you.

+1

Hrafn wrote:Evil parties can and do exist. Party bonds form out of love, list, friendship (love again?), duty, familiarity, insecurity, and jealousy. They aren't always about finding a wizard to complement the rest of the group, it's usually about finding a wizard you can stand to complement the group.

Chaotic evil can be a rampaging demon, but it can also be the neurotic, clingy, jealous and insecure person who actually will kill when someone causes their friend/lover trouble instead of just getting upset. Lawful evil can be the lawyer tyrant, but it could also be the person who is philosophically inclined to believe entropy always wins so better to be on the winning side, along with his friends and loved ones, and just enjoy it while he can. Neutral evil benefits from having the widest immediate range of reasons to be with other people and stay loyal; they seem the most capable of being human instead of caricatures.

Social bonds are big, especially for evil, because backstabbing is rife and fallout common; you want to be really good at feeling out people and even better at keeping those who mean to do good by you.

make that another +1

Hrafn wrote:Evil parties can and do exist. Party bonds form out of love, list, friendship (love again?), duty, familiarity, insecurity, and jealousy. They aren't always about finding a wizard to complement the rest of the group, it's usually about finding a wizard you can stand to complement the group.

Chaotic evil can be a rampaging demon, but it can also be the neurotic, clingy, jealous and insecure person who actually will kill when someone causes their friend/lover trouble instead of just getting upset. Lawful evil can be the lawyer tyrant, but it could also be the person who is philosophically inclined to believe entropy always wins so better to be on the winning side, along with his friends and loved ones, and just enjoy it while he can. Neutral evil benefits from having the widest immediate range of reasons to be with other people and stay loyal; they seem the most capable of being human instead of caricatures.

Social bonds are big, especially for evil, because backstabbing is rife and fallout common; you want to be really good at feeling out people and even better at keeping those who mean to do good by you.

You can have my +1!

Hrafn wrote:Lawful evil can be the lawyer tyrant, but it could also be the person who is philosophically inclined to believe entropy always wins so better to be on the winning side, along with his friends and loved ones, and just enjoy it while he can...

I always thought of "lawful evil" as respecting hierarchy. So... a band of pirates, for example, would be more "lawful evil," and the few "chaotic evil" ones in the band might be prone to instigating mutiny, while the lawful evil ones would sway to their side if they perceived the captain as weak. A band of pirates, btw, is a fun "evil" campaign.

slgarrett wrote:

Hrafn wrote:Lawful evil can be the lawyer tyrant, but it could also be the person who is philosophically inclined to believe entropy always wins so better to be on the winning side, along with his friends and loved ones, and just enjoy it while he can...

I always thought of "lawful evil" as respecting hierarchy. So... a band of pirates, for example, would be more "lawful evil," and the few "chaotic evil" ones in the band might be prone to instigating mutiny, while the lawful evil ones would sway to their side if they perceived the captain as weak. A band of pirates, btw, is a fun "evil" campaign.

A pirate themed RPG.... perhaps. Yes, I could see that in a DnD world. Would make for an interesing campaign!

Rukellian wrote:

slgarrett wrote:

Hrafn wrote:Lawful evil can be the lawyer tyrant, but it could also be the person who is philosophically inclined to believe entropy always wins so better to be on the winning side, along with his friends and loved ones, and just enjoy it while he can...

I always thought of "lawful evil" as respecting hierarchy. So... a band of pirates, for example, would be more "lawful evil," and the few "chaotic evil" ones in the band might be prone to instigating mutiny, while the lawful evil ones would sway to their side if they perceived the captain as weak. A band of pirates, btw, is a fun "evil" campaign.

A pirate themed RPG.... perhaps. Yes, I could see that in a DnD world. Would make for an interesing campaign!

I have always wanted to play in one, especially keeping it realistic versus magical. (so no PoTC plots). I know there are a couple of rulesets for it, but it seems that modifying 1e could be done fairly easily, rather than using a completely new rules engine.

To me lawful evil would be most serial killers. They adhere to a very strict set of rules. Only kill certain types, only if this happens or that... very disciplined. Where chaotic evil would just be mean spirited and would harm or kill whenever they had the fancy to do so...

I assume it's okay to post on an old thread here...

It seems to be that these debates are all based in the (often unspoken) idea that people and actions are either good or bad. And for the purposes of the game, I have no problem with that. Although it seems to me that in "real life," even just thinking about my very own motivations, bad (selfish, vengeful) motivations can often end up making you look good, and good motivations can make you look really bad. Sort of a mix.

So, the notion that I've run into a lot that evil campaigns self-destruct because the characters are evil and can't do anything but betray each other and go for each other's throats...that notion seems to help us to assure ourselves that we aren't really evil (because we don't do that). I dunno. I'm happy to play good characters, I like goodness, I like people helping people. I don't particularly want to play an evil character or run an evil campaign. But I never quite get the implied (I think it's implied) reproach of "evil" people. Plenty of people have done really, really bad things on a grand scale and still shown that they can be organized and work well with others.

whattime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:17 pmIt seems to be that these debates are all based in the (often unspoken) idea that people and actions are either good or bad. And for the purposes of the game, I have no problem with that. Although it seems to me that in "real life," even just thinking about my very own motivations, bad (selfish, vengeful) motivations can often end up making you look good, and good motivations can make you look really bad. Sort of a mix.

My middle daughter can be pretty contrary, and I've gotten into this with her a lot. "Nobody cares why you're helpful. What matters to people is that you did help. That's why people say thank you. Nobody cares if you did it because ..." (whatever obnoxious offensive reason was stated). And the flipside, which is not as happy of a conversation.

There's plenty of potential to explore this theme of results vs. intentions in a typical fantasy game.

i agree with this - not a fan of the alignment system in DnD, etc. Look at the [ older ] Palladium system - they have opportunist instead of CN, more a set of codes than good/evil/neutral -

i think that gives a better representation of character [ more playable ] - you have to think/consider what the character would do in different situations, and tailor your code to that - then follow through when rping - sure, you'll have a lot more shades of grey

then, modify spells - detect the intent of evil/good - picking up on immediate thoughts, probably actions

then you also don;'t have the problem of a paladin/cleric - looking the other way or wandering off once the battle is finished so the rogue or assassin can have fun too