22. Troglodyte Lair - Side (Grim and Gwillt only)

[tooleychris]

Ah, that is also something they did in DDO, so I bet it's more than just a house rule. Maybe it's a later modification?

It is also a 3rd edition change, but I've been doing that and the finesse weapons in my campaigns since before 2nd edition. It just works better, especially the finesse for making thieves more viable at lower levels and making fighters who can be more swashbuckling types. No armor.

[dmw71]

Happy to dig through the house rules to see what should be carried over.

Thanks. I started to walk through my rules on my commute this morning and was taking some notes. I'm quickly learning that I really don't know 2E that well. I want to get through my rules as quickly as possible, then read read the actual "book" rules that I'll be using as *the* rules so I'll know what is already in place (and doesn't need to be restated), then focus on documenting the things from my current game (or new ideas) that I want to use that aren't standard.

He never told us any of the modules, in any case, so we never knew if what we were doing was his design, someone else's, a published module, or just straight-up sandbox. To us, it was all "sandbox".

I've been thinking of doing something like this myself. I do have a bunch of purchased modules now, it's just a matter of picking one, studying it, and customizing it. Likely, I would twist the crap out of it so it wouldn't even be recognizable, but the basic framework and plot would be a nice, get started quickly template to work from.

Then again, I could always just do what I did with Foxmoor and just completely wing it.

(I love the way he takes a random encounter roll and changes it so that it might be a new plot hook instead of just some random battle that reduces our combat resources).

I haven't really looked at third's game, but that sounds like a cool idea.

[Alethan]

Random Encounter Turned Plot Hook Example:

The party was resting for the evening. Random counter roll turned up... an elf (the party was in a forested area in some low mountains, I believe).

Number appearing ended up being one.

So instead of it being a hostile elf plinking the party with arrows, it was a refuge from an elven village high up in the mountains that had been taken over by a tribe of ogres. They were using the elves as slaves for something or other. He managed to get away and was looking for help to rescue his village.

And then I believe he DID work a very short published (or freely obtained) module into the reason as to why the ogres needed the elven slaves. Even had a twist of ancient technology that had been buried in the mountain eons ago, uncovered by the ogres. It was some computer entity that implanted mind control chips in the foreheads of the slaves to make them work. Pretty cool how he worked it all out.

[dmw71]

So instead of it being a hostile elf plinking the party with arrows, it was a refuge from an elven village high up in the mountains that had been taken over by a tribe of ogres. They were using the elves as slaves for something or other. He managed to get away and was looking for help to rescue his village.

Cool idea. I don't care for introducing future technologies into the game, but that's just me. Wasn't their a published module (or maybe more than one?) that did that? With lasers, or spaceships or something?

Still, props to third for creatively working an otherwise random encounter into something meaningful that drove the story forward; even if into a different direction.

[tooleychris]

I think the old mod "white plum mountain "? Introduced some gamma world stuff and there was also a dragon article that introduction the "machine mage " that hosted a bunch of robot bad guys. I didn't care for the NPC class (kinda hokie ) but the adventure set around it was pretty fun. I'm with you though. Spells and swords... laser rifles and plasma bombs? Nah...

[tooleychris]

Oooh, I was off. It was Expedition to the Barrier Peaks!
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expediti ... rier_Peaks

[dmw71]

I think the old mod "white plum mountain "?

It's been bothering me, but I found it: Expedition to the Barrier Peak.

I never played it, but obviously learned of it somehow. It would probably be fun, but not really my style.

[dmw71]

Oooh, I was off. It was Expedition to the Barrier Peaks!

It's been bothering me, but I found it: Expedition to the Barrier Peak.

Haha!

[Alethan]

I think the old mod "white plum mountain "? Introduced some gamma world stuff and there was also a dragon article that introduction the "machine mage " that hosted a bunch of robot bad guys. I didn't care for the NPC class (kinda hokie ) but the adventure set around it was pretty fun. I'm with you though. Spells and swords... laser rifles and plasma bombs? Nah...

Well, all of the technology was destroyed/useless without the controlling unit, which we had to destroy. So it isn't like we walked away with a Laser Blaster +1 out of the deal.

I think it was more of a nod to the Shannara series, playing off the idea that previous civilizations had made amazing technological advances before, ultimately, falling into ruin.

[tooleychris]

So....no duel lightsabres for the ranger?????
Sorry but that's a deal breaker! How else will he get to level 1000?

[dmw71]

This:
Method VIII
The player assigns 24d6 among a character’s six ability scores. Each ability score must have at least 3d6, but no more 6d6, devoted to it. If the player desires a character with a high Strength, he could devote 4d6, 5d6, or even 6d6 to that ability. Next, the appropriate number of dice are rolled for each ability, and the total of the three highest results become the score. Any and all other dice rolled for that ability are discarded.

Or this:
Method V
Roll four six-sided dice (4d6). Discard the lowest die and total the remaining three. Repeat this five more times, then assign the six numbers to the character's abilities however you want. This is a fast method that gives you a good character, but you can still get low scores (after all, you could roll 1s on all four dice!).


Thoughts?

[tooleychris]

Not very constructive, sorry, but I've always liked both.
Honestly I can get the same scores rolling these methods as your house rules method though.
Maybe 1 lower than normal...

[dmw71]

I can get the same scores rolling these methods as your house rules method though.

The difference being, either of the above methods can result in an ability score lower than 10, which was the lowest score possible in Foxmoor.

[tooleychris]

I can get the same scores rolling these methods as your house rules method though.

The difference being, either of the above methods can result in an ability score lower than 10, which was the lowest score possible in Foxmoor.

In which case the player pushes the "Nay" button and rerolls...

[dmw71]

In which case the player pushes the "Nay" button and rerolls...

Only, I don't accept rolls made using the "Roll Stats" button for that very reason.

[Alethan]

I can get the same scores rolling these methods as your house rules method though.

The difference being, either of the above methods can result in an ability score lower than 10, which was the lowest score possible in Foxmoor.

In which case the player pushes the "Nay" button and rerolls...

It's so obvious when players do this, too. Never seen so many people post such BS rolls before in my life as I have here.

Seriously, how many times did you have to re-roll to get TWO 18's for stats? I think I went through four or five games once and averaged all of the stats for all of the characters in them and came up with something like an average of 14.5 for EVERYONE. It was ridiculous.

Therefore...

Only, I don't accept rolls made using the "Roll Stats" button for that very reason.

I am in full accord with this. Manual dice rolls, after a character has been created in the dice roller and assigned to the Campaign ID, if you want to roll your own stats. Otherwise, let me (if I'm the DM) do it. Or, maybe better, don't bother playing the game.

The nice thing about the sub-stats is that you can bump a few mediocre stats to at least still give you some bonuses if you're willing to detrimentally go the other direction with the opposing sub-stat.

I like the first option, by the way. In one of the instances, it gave me surprisingly different stats (some of my 3d6 rolls came out high while the 6d6 roll came out low) and I had to re-think my character build, but... that's half the fun, isn't it?

[tooleychris]

Eh, I never really cared if my players powerbuilt. If they feel they need a couple high stats to have fun then so be it.
.
I personally like RPing a low stat. I was disappointed when grim had average INT WIS CHAR.
It's all about having fun (as long as it doesn't ruin someone else's fun.)

[Alethan]

Eh, I never really cared if my players powerbuilt. If they feel they need a couple high stats to have fun then so be i
.
I personally like RPing a low stat. I was disappointed when grim had average INT WIS CHAR.
It's all about having fun (as long as it doesn't ruin someone else's fun.)

Player A rolls his stats, accepts them as they are, then builds a character accordingly, picking a race and class kit for specific bonuses to make the best character possible.

Player B rolls his stats. Doesn't like them, so he rolls again. Doesn't like them, so he rolls again. Doesn't like them, so he rolls again... Then FINALLY gets the amazing stats he wants, accepts them, and then builds his character exactly the way he'd originally decided he wanted to build a character.

In my book, the first person is power building. I have absolutely no problem with this; it's how I build almost all of my characters. I never approach a game thinking, "I'm going to play a PALADIN this time." I roll the dice, see what it gets me, then build accordingly and try to make the best of what I'm given.

The second person is cheating the spirit of the game. Hell, he's cheating the letter of the game, too. And I think it is just as bad as rolling To Hit rolls over and over until you get the action for that round you want (a hit instead of a miss). And I think this DOES affect the fun of others in the group, when they know they're playing a character as best they can, but maybe dealing with crappy (or no) To Hit bonuses because they didn't fudge their dice while the Paladin practically can't miss because he kept re-rolling until he got a 18 STR, then kept re-rolling % dice until he got a 94%.

Or, look at it this way... If you let them re-roll their stat rolls so they can get the rolls they want, then why not let them re-roll ALL rolls - combat, saving throws, stat checks, starting gold, etc. - until they get the rolls they want?

Besides... if I know a player has a propensity for fudging dice rolls, then that's just one more thing I have to actively keep track of to make sure they don't cheat some other way.

[dmw71]

I haven't officially decided, but I may -- may -- be throwing a major curveball.

Decision soon.

[Alethan]

I haven't officially decided, but I may -- may -- be throwing a major curveball.

Decision soon.

Ooooooohhhhh!

Also, working on Feliks, a mediocre mage/thief.

Also, had to update my first two characters as I totally forgot to select Class Abilities. This is fun!