OOC

[wolfpack]

put your OOC chat here

[rredmond]

Sorry this:

...They sound suspiciously smart to me, hiding in leaves and playing dead and all that.

made me chuckle.

[zebediah]

[Teramis]

I guess that is a little oxymoronic, isn't it?

[rredmond]

Starting the MO discussion:

Thinking the strong ones, Hanna and Scythius need to be up front.

Then Ossi and Cilian somewhere in the middle.

Maybe Tubeedee and Viktor second rank? Which would put Sergius as the only rear guard. Urg. Mayhap either Tubeedee or Viktor could join Sergius as rear guard, and the other could stay near the casters as protection?

[wolfpack]

just as a note, I do follow the rule that spears and polearms can attack creatures in front from the second rank.

[Teramis]

Starting the MO discussion:

Thinking the strong ones, Hanna and Scythius need to be up front.

Then Ossi and Cilian somewhere in the middle.

Maybe Tubeedee and Viktor second rank? Which would put Sergius as the only rear guard. Urg. Mayhap either Tubeedee or Viktor could join Sergius as rear guard, and the other could stay near the casters as protection?

Hanna is the type of person who wants to take on danger right away, so she really likes being in front (maybe when she's older/wiser that will change?). The other suggestions sound good to me, except it also seems Viktor wants to scamper ahead trap-checking etc. Maybe we should let him take solo point, lit up by the torch, and be the crash test dummy. Then whatever jumps on Vik will be distracted and we'll get in some free licks while saving his butt later.

[rredmond]

How about this then, in dungeon, for a Marching Order by rank:

1. Vik and Hanna
(Vik can move up in 5' width or to detect stuff)

2. Sergius (second rank with the spear)

3. Ossi and Cilian

4. Tubeedee and Scythius
(Scy can move to point in wilderness, or move back in 5' width)

OOC: is Cilian still with us?

[wolfpack]

I have not heard from him since last week. I am going to npc him for now until i know for sure. Unless stated otherwise we can move foward with this marching order.

[LanWarder]

Looks good to me, I can effectively use my short bow from the rear ranks over heads, or down a middle lane. I can move up if needed in wilderness for tracking or such...

[zebediah]

2. Sergius (second rank with the spear)

Works for me. If we need to thicken the front row I can step forth with the short sword.

[Argennian]

Hanna is the type of person who wants to take on danger right away, so she really likes being in front (maybe when she's older/wiser that will change?). The other suggestions sound good to me, except it also seems Viktor wants to scamper ahead trap-checking etc. Maybe we should let him take solo point, lit up by the torch, and be the crash test dummy. Then whatever jumps on Vik will be distracted and we'll get in some free licks while saving his butt later.

Just so we're clear, Viktor doesn't have a death wish or a must-go-first thing going on here. He feels that he can use some of the skills his brother taught him to keep his friends from walking into something unseen. When he's not doing the wannabe thief thing, he's happy to be in the second rank or rear guard and come forward to check when something looks suspicious. And he doesn't have to hold the torch here either. No one else volunteered is all. And even a demihuman cannot see most traps or tripwires without a light source anyways.

Question for the DM: I wanted to clear up a game mechanic here about holding a torch or lantern at the same time as a shield and weapon. I've seen this adjucated different ways. Most DMs I've played under say you can't hold all three. IMC, a character can hold a torch or lantern with their shield hand when exploring but not during melee. Usually it gets set down beforehand, but this takes a partial action (just like sheathing a weapon vs dropping it). Dropping a lantern (or a torch that's not well lit for that matter) can cause it to go out or flicker (DM's roll here). If a combatant strikes at someone holding one, there's also a chance that it will be hit, which could be bad as well. In addition, a shield's armor value would not be counted to the character's overall AC if it cannot be used to properly defend themselves.

In Viktor's case, especially with his companions either next to him or right behind him and being able to come to his aid if he gets jumped, he figured to keep the shield usuable to gain the extra defensive value if attacked. Usually it takes at least a half action to bring a shield to bear when it's on your back or hitched on the belt (some say even more!), but drawing a weapon and attacking can usually be done within a melee round. Since drawing a weapon and attacking is usually considered ok to do in one's melee-round action, I felt it made more sense to keep the shield handy when using the torch. Plus a torch can be more safely dropped (dropping an item is usually considered a free action) or used to stick in someone or something's face. Just my 2 curious coppers here.

So what's your rule on this, Wolfpack?

[rredmond]

Heydee, I'm not sure if the cleric has a shield, but I'm betting our proto-illusionist semi-npc doesn't

Let's have Cilian carry the torch, especially since he'll be in the middle anyway.

Should we revisit the Marching Order?

[wolfpack]

In regards to the torch.

If using a small shield, or wooden shield a player may hold the torch in their shield hand. However if attacked that person cannot attack in melee, or use their shield for defense. The player if engaged may elect to simply drop the torch to the side which is a partial action (like drawing a weapon) and can still attack and defend in that round, this gives a slight chance (determined by me according to the environmental situation) the torch may extinguish. If the player wants to sit the torch down neatly to the side to ensure it doesn't go out that takes a rounds action.

If struck while holding a torch and shield there is a slight chance the player may burn themselves with the torch while flailing around doing 1-4 damage.

If using a large shield a player may not hold a torch at the same time.

make sense?

[wolfpack]

BTW I think in her in character posts that teramis was saying hanna would be happy to carry the torch.

She has a hand axe and doesn't use a shield, she didn't want the shield becuase one day she plans on fighting with a two handed weapon and didnt want to get used ot one. If she still doesn't then indeed let the mage carry the torch. it gives enough light for a 15' radius so everyone would still be able to see.

At lest that is the way I read it. Regardless you guys need to decide on a direction.

[rredmond]

Dropping torch would be problemattic for our human eyes!

Let's have Illusionist hold torch. Now to the game thread!

[Teramis]

Just so we're clear, Viktor doesn't have a death wish or a must-go-first thing going on here.

Makes sense. And for the record, I post things that reflect Hanna's perspective (or attempts at humor) that are not necessarily my personal views as player.

And he doesn't have to hold the torch here either. No one else volunteered is all.

Um, I did, after I saw it hampered your use of weapons. I have a hand free. Instead you offered me your shield.

I'll take the torch if you want. It shouldn't hinder my fighting except for this caution:

If struck while holding a torch and shield there is a slight chance the player may burn themselves with the torch while flailing around doing 1-4 damage.

Wolf, how do you handle it if I'm fighting, carrying a torch, and want to stick the fire in the face of whatever I'm taking a whack at?

Let's have Illusionist hold torch.

If the light source is behind the front rank, that reduces our forward vision by a certain distance. Also, illusionist with torch repeats the problem of having to drop it in order to fight (spellcast with both hands). Not that more light is a bad idea, just saying there should be a source in the front rank (and the rear guard might like one too!) We do have multiple torches (2 in my pack, at least, and wolf allowed we grabbed a couple when we came in).

[Argennian]

Thanks for clearing up that mechanic, WP. Sorry for the confusion with who'll carry the torch. I honestly thought Hana wanted Viktor's shield. That's what I get for trying to read/post too quickly on me way out the door. My misunderstanding there.

Viktor will offer the torch to Hana (or to Cilian), but I agree with Teramis that it would be better to have more than one going (in case one gets snuffed) and that we'd be able to see farther down the tunnel with light in the front rank. Otherwise, Viktor will hold the torch in his shield hand and draw his sword moving forward.

[rredmond]

40' of light not good enough for y'all? Ah well, Tubeedee (not doing the hide in shadows thing yet) can certainly be prevailed upon to hold a torch in the back if need be.

[Argennian]

40' of light not good enough for y'all? Ah well, Tubeedee (not doing the hide in shadows thing yet) can certainly be prevailed upon to hold a torch in the back if need be.

With that 40' being the radius, you mean 20' ahead of who's holding it, yeah? Heck no, we need a bullseye lantern here!