Cha’alt?

[grokkngrognard]

Anyone here familiar with Venger Satanis’s Cha’alt setting and his Crimson Dragon Slayer rpg? I don’t care for his Alpha Blue stuff, just the above mentioned. Seems similar to the gonzo you get from Dungeon Crawl Classics.

[Rex]

Never heard of it until now. I just read up on it now. Sounds from the reviews like a over the top fun house adventure. I like fun house adventures but this one sounds really over the top. When going for fun house now a days it would have to be Castle Xyntillian.

[Scott308]

I played a game of Crimson Dragon Slayer run by Venger several years ago at a con. It was fun! However, I have a huge problem with Venger himself, so I can't really support anything he does anymore.

[grokkngrognard]

I have read where he is a polarizing figure but I don’t know the specifics as to why he rubs people wrong. I’m almost afraid to know.

[Keehnelf]

In my understanding, most of it boils down to him making vocally, unapologetically (but also kind of weirdly) right-wing stuff. Like, if I remember right, one from a couple years ago was about a cult that was killing babies and on the cover he was basically like "Yes, this adventure is for pro-life activists who want to fantasize about killing people who perform abortions."

Stuff like that. There might be more personal-behavior stuff, but that's not anything I've seen discussed directly.

[Rex]

When I searched his name to see what he had written there were some that were tagged as adult only. Not sure that qualifies as right wing but certainly more extreme then the usual rpg products.

[Keehnelf]

His upcoming event "Venger Con III" is subtitled "Reject Modernity / Embrace Tradition" which only 50% means OSR roleplaying.

[Scott308]

Venger con does not allow people to wear masks, he ridicules safety tools, such as the X-card, he loves to call people "woke" and "SJWs." Last year, Gamehole Con posted a version of their logo with Pride colors on Facebook. He immediately declared he was boycotting GHC because of that. This is a DM he sent me:

Don't let your kids get groomed at GameHole Con! Join me in boycotting yet another groomer con. Just say, "No" to the rainbow progress flag!

[grokkngrognard]

Hmmm, I’m not cool with bringing real life politics to fantasy roleplay games. Sad.

[rredmond]

Venger likes controversy, and like others I think likes to use it as a marketing tool. Getting a niche of a niche is, as we’ve seen, can be somewhat profitable. But on the very rare occasion we get a blowhard here, espousing their beliefs and/or mis-belief's, it gets shut down pretty quick - usually by other members. ‘Tis a good place to game! And I never understood bringing real world stuff into gaming, give me the techno babble of TOS and Vancian magic!

[Rex]

Agreed Ron, if that is your thing there are plenty of other places for it. I find history/mythology very interesting and my games tend to work a little bit more historical accuracy into them, but certainly not in a political or preachy way.

[thirdkingdom]

I'm curious. People that have said they don't want politics in gaming, what do you mean by that? Do you not want gaming to be about tax brackets and zoning restrictions, or do you think that gay or other margainalized people shouldn't be portrayed in games? Because I know for a fact that when people like Venger and Justin LaNasa talk about taking politics out of gaming they're not talking about debating the benefits of universal health care.

[rredmond]

They are very political about taking out politics though aren’t they.
I don’t really want real world politics in my games. I don’t even want the Duke of Furyondy’s politics in my games.

[thirdkingdom]

They are very political about taking out politics though aren’t they.
I don’t really want real world politics in my games. I don’t even want the Duke of Furyondy’s politics in my games.

Not to sound glib, but I still don't know what you mean by not wanting "real world politics" in games. When I hear that phrase I hear a dogwhistle for a straight white man wanting to maintain the status quo in what they have seen as "their space" for decades. Like, if I were a player in one of your games, could I play a gay character? A trans character? How about a disabled character? I don't know if you remember when a significant portion of the gaming sphere lost their collective minds over the introduction of the combat wheelchair to 5e? That was called "woke" and "pandering" and "injecting politics into gaming". For my daughter, however, who has cerebral palsy, it was a chance to see and play an empowered version of herself. Like it or not, for margainalized people, their *lives* are political, through no fault or desire of their own. So, when those people hear "no politics in gaming" they hear that they shouldn't be represented in games.

I'm hoping that's not what you mean -- you seem like a pretty decent dude -- but your answer didn't really do anything to answer my question about what you viewed as political. This is an amazing time to be in gaming. There are people creating innovative, thoughtful products that explore themes of colonialism, neglect, belonging, homesickness, memory, language, and more. Gamers are more diverse than ever, and that is bringing different perspectives and styles of play into games. Some people feel threatened by that, and I think those are the ones saying "no politics in gaming". But there's still room for the older school style of gaming! It's not a zero-sum game!

If you want to sit down with your friends and play X8, Drums on Fire Mountain, one of the most cringeworthy, racist adventures to come out of the TSR-era, and your players are fine with that, go nuts! No one is stopping you from playing the game the way you want to! But if you go onto a gaming forum and talk about your experience, people will likely challenge some assumptions you've made! It's like, I mentioned that my daughter has CP, right? We've got a handicap pass for our car, and have become acutely aware of the number of non-disabled people who park in handicap spaces. Some of them are just assholes, but some honestly hadn't considered how it affects other people until they're getting yelled at by my wife with our daughter on crutches standing next to her. Same thing with adventures like Drums on Fire Mountain; some people might not realize just how racist it is until it is pointed out to them by BIPOC people who have been subjected to the very same stereotypes.

Anyway, sorry for the long post.

[rredmond]

Well my post was vague on purpose thirdkingdom, whereas your post is full of political... let's just say terms. Terms that folks like to use to get attention, make others angry, increase product sales, whatever, but also push their agendas; also to imply what they think others might be - incorrectly. You don't really know me as well as maybe some others here, so you don't know about my decades of experience working with folks who have been marginalized, my advocacy for those with intellectual and developmental disabilities, inspired by my cousin with Downs who quite recently passed away, or maybe that I have a trans son, or the reasons I might have become a social worker. But that's fine, I'm not going to hate on you at a gaming table (virtual or real) for what you believe or what you assume I believe. Of course I also don't try to assume that others are "assholes" or "racists", and call them as such, by posts on the internet - hard to read body language, or intent in a post. I also won't start throwing big time political (or let's say politically inspired) terms at someone else when they quote a long held and quite often used RULE of not espousing politics or "real world" religions on D&D forums. I believe Dragonsfoot actually uses something even more encompassing like "do not fly your colours" and Giant in the Playground is real careful how people discuss RPG deities and modern day Paganism.

I don't know why I need to be debating with someone over who they are going to vote for, when I'm rolling a d20 because an owlbear just came up on a wandering monster check. Now (and again I'm a social worker) if you want to do that outside of gaming, especially D&D forums gaming, in "real life" as they say, then bring it. I have no problems debating with others over their (what I perceive as) incorrect opinions . I don't find it fun or enjoyable, and even in "real life" those tend to get heated, but there are times when it needs to be done. But here on this little tiny piece of the internet, when you are playing games about elves and dragons, there's no reason to debate "real world" politics. I'll keep using the quotes so that you don't get all worked up again, and start throwing terms and assumptions at me again. And I'll apologize now that I got a little worked up too, and you can post that you weren't worked up or whatever that's fine. I'm cool with you thirdkingdom, you put a lot of great products out and have been a valued member of Unseen Servant absolutely, and for a long time which I truly appreciate. I didn't put this in Moderator Red for a reason, it's all my own opinion, but in general do try to keep "real world politics" off of Unseen Servant, there are plenty of other places to debate it, but it just tends to distract and cause conflict on a D&D forum.

My two coppers, my opinion doesn't reflect that of the management

[thirdkingdom]

Aight, I will drop the subject.

[Leitz]

When I started playing gamers were marginalized; we stuck together and did our best to ignore the labels others applied. Now we're the cool kids, sadly decades after we were no longer kids.

The question of a diverse PC definition has some merit, but I'm not sure how it plays into the adventure group. Most groups I've seen are more diverse than the players, and the group members decide to get along for the adventure. Not just the dwarves and elves, but the middle easterners and the europeans. The historical and the fantastic trek alongside the futuristic. As a DM it's fun to look at a PC's concept, have no idea what they are, and then to dig in and understand them better.

Sometimes you're going to come to a game with a different perspective. Talk with the DM and help them understand better. Most DMs here have been very understanding when my character, or I, weren't quite what they expected.

If a module strikes you as racist, or sexist, or whatever-ist, talk to the DM. There have been games where I put objectionable situations in specifically so the players can enjoy the fight against evil. Maybe the DM doesn't see the issue, and you can help them understand.