OOC Chatter

[Eris]

Ok, thanks! I think I'll roll physical dice since it will help me learn Shadowdark. It's my first time with the system. And I'm definitely no cheater. Bad rolls can be just as fun as good ones.

Great! Go for it!

Eris

[Eris]

Guys, I really think I prefer the more narrative reply I used in the Turn 1 post where I just posted what happened and not the rolls. I *am* doing them in the background so I showed them with Turn 2, but it really broke up the flow of the narrative.

Would you mind if I just went with narrative (rolls completely off screen) in my combat turn replies?

[Marullus]

Not at all. I liked it better the other way, too!

I think it's fine if you want to do all your rolls off-screen. For transparency sake I usually bunch them all in a spoiler at the end, but that's to assuage my guilt and affirm for the players that itnis the dice (and not me) out to get them.

[Rex]

I am fine with you not posting rolls.

[shaidar]

No problems.

[Eris]

Okay, you all survived! I had fun, hope you did too.

If the Skeleton's Initiative roll hadn't turned up as a 1, if they had gotten in earlier attacks in the turns, I think it would have gone more badly for you. In retrospect, I probably should have rolled Initiative twice for the Skeletons, once for the group in the Nave and once for the group on the Dias.

What do you think, are you having fun?

[shaidar]

Yeah, definitely.

I think I've been lucky with my rolls, even with the advantage on magic missile.

[Eris]

Hey, guys about checks...from my reading...

Spellchecks are different than other checks, failure means can't do it again until there is a rest.

Other checks are, it appears, are mostly turn based, so if you fail this turn (to hit with your sword for example) you can still try again next turn. I think this should apply to checks involving Backgrounds, too! Some Backgrounds do have failure effects, though, like making potions by the Herbalist that require a rest on failure, although most don't.

BUT Backgrounds also have an extra feature...Advantage. If you have Advantage due to your background you roll twice and take the better result.

[Marullus]

...moving rules discussion to OOC.

Turn Undead (Instant, Near). You rebuke undead creatures, forcing them to flee. You must present a holy symbol to cast this spell. Undead creatures within near of you must make a CHA check vs. your spellcasting check. If a creature fails by 10+ points and is equal to or less than your level, it is destroyed. Otherwise, on a fail, it flees from you for 5 rounds.

As I read the rules in SD:

If you fail your spellcasting check, the spell does not take
effect. You can’t cast that spell again until you complete a rest.

So, a. the Turn Undead spell doesn't take effect (no turning at all) on a failed spellcasting check; b. got to complete a rest to get it back; c. if you make the Turn Undead roll, then each undead must use their CHA+10 to beat your roll. Are you interpreting that differently?

Turn Undead is different in that it doesn't have a DC. You can't just pass/fail. Instead, each undead rolls using my roll as their DC.

I see a few ways it could go:
* It doesn't fail and get lost. (It is a separate talent from spellcasting, as well.)
* If all undead succeed it counts as the spellcaster failing. (The collective approach.)
* If an undead succeeds, the spell has failed on them and can't be retried on them. (The individual approach.)

...I think I like 1 or 3 more than two. Failing against ghosts in the first scene meaning I am impotent against the skeletons in the second (and all after) is much harsher.

each undead must use their CHA+10 to beat your roll.

...it isn't their CHA+10.
They roll CHA. (This is how I rolled a 5 and still beat two skeletons.)
If they lose by 10, they are destroyed and not turned. (Which would require me rolling above 10, which I haven't! )

[Rex]

Okay, you all survived! I had fun, hope you did too.

If the Skeleton's Initiative roll hadn't turned up as a 1, if they had gotten in earlier attacks in the turns, I think it would have gone more badly for you. In retrospect, I probably should have rolled Initiative twice for the Skeletons, once for the group in the Nave and once for the group on the Dias.

What do you think, are you having fun?

I am having fun, been a good game so far.

[Rex]

...moving rules discussion to OOC.

Turn Undead (Instant, Near). You rebuke undead creatures, forcing them to flee. You must present a holy symbol to cast this spell. Undead creatures within near of you must make a CHA check vs. your spellcasting check. If a creature fails by 10+ points and is equal to or less than your level, it is destroyed. Otherwise, on a fail, it flees from you for 5 rounds.

As I read the rules in SD:

If you fail your spellcasting check, the spell does not take
effect. You can’t cast that spell again until you complete a rest.

So, a. the Turn Undead spell doesn't take effect (no turning at all) on a failed spellcasting check; b. got to complete a rest to get it back; c. if you make the Turn Undead roll, then each undead must use their CHA+10 to beat your roll. Are you interpreting that differently?

Turn Undead is different in that it doesn't have a DC. You can't just pass/fail. Instead, each undead rolls using my roll as their DC.

I see a few ways it could go:
* It doesn't fail and get lost. (It is a separate talent from spellcasting, as well.)
* If all undead succeed it counts as the spellcaster failing. (The collective approach.)
* If an undead succeeds, the spell has failed on them and can't be retried on them. (The individual approach.)

...I think I like 1 or 3 more than two. Failing against ghosts in the first scene meaning I am impotent against the skeletons in the second (and all after) is much harsher.

each undead must use their CHA+10 to beat your roll.

...it isn't their CHA+10.
They roll CHA. (This is how I rolled a 5 and still beat two skeletons.)
If they lose by 10, they are destroyed and not turned. (Which would require me rolling above 10, which I haven't! )

I suggest go back to Holmes Basic/1e rule (same rule). You can use it once per encounter per group of undead. Thus a mixed group of undead you could use it once on each type but that is it. Succeed or fail.

[Eris]

I'm going to beg to differ on Turn Undead not having a DC. As a Tier One spell (p 51), it has a DC of 11 (10+1).

"Undead creatures within near of you must make a CHA check vs. your spellcasting check. If a creature fails by 10+ points and is equal to or less than your level, it is destroyed. Otherwise, on a fail, it flees from you for 5 rounds" (p 72)

I think RAW the procedure must go like this:

1. The Priest's player rolls a Spellcasting check (that would be d20+WIS) trying to get 11+, my reading is you have to make that 11+ for any Tier One spell (like Turn Undead ) (see p 44), if you don't it simply fizzles, doesn't take effect, and the Priest can't use it again until they get a rest.

2. If the Turn Undead spell does take effect, then each Undead must make a CHA check (d20+CHA) vs whatever you rolled on your spellcasting check. Based on this roll 3 things may happen:

1. If their roll is 10+ lower than your roll (and they are your level or lower) they are destroyed
2. If their CHA check is lower than your spellcasting check by less than 10 they must flee for 5 rounds
3. If their CHA check is higher than your spellcasting check they are not turned.

I really think I've got this correct.

[Marullus]

Agreed. Realized the same thing when reading this morning.

[Eris]

Agreed. Realized the same thing when reading this morning.

We'll get it right next time you face Undead.

[shaidar]

D4 for healing is cool. Advantage or no advantage?

[Eris]

I moved this over here because I want to talk about Backgrounds.

Does the Background house rule give the healing ability AN advantage?[/ooc]

First point, PC's can TRY ANYTHING! Any task by anyone, it just takes an explanation, a Stat check, and a Ref ruling.

Second point, PC's can try to apply their Backgrounds to any task and get an advantage, maybe an Advantage roll, maybe an extra point or two! You just have to convince me to let you.

Bind Wounds isn't mentioned anywhere in the rules, but First Aid is and we know healing can be done. It makes sense a Chirurgeon could apply First Aid...or Bind Wounds..., but so could anyone else. It's a task, try it! It will take less convincing for the PC with the Chirurgeon Background to get Advantage and they might heal for more points, but anyone can try and if you convince me to apply your Background your PC can get Advantage, too.

So, I won't give Cure Wounds an Advantage roll. However what you can do, is spin a convincing narrative and try to...let's say...apply first aid (or call it bind wounds if you want). And what I will do, if the player spins a really convincing yarn about how their background applies here, is to give an Advantage on that check.

I think that, generally, Backgrounds are meant to be this game's Proficiencies, Skills, and in large part past Experience...in a Narrative form. So, they should give a PC an advantage roll on anything that they try that fits that description. However, they are left very loosely defined because they aren't "rules" they are "suggestions" on how a narrative might go...if you can convince the Ref. The advantage might be an extra roll, an extra point or two on a roll, or anything else...Ref choice.

So, being more Narrative than Rule based, the player needs to 'fast talk' me into accepting how they plan to use their Background to "solve this problem" when it comes up. Something like:

shaidar: "After the battle is over, Wendel draws on his background as a Chirurgeon to try to bind Naugrim's wound and give him some relief from his injuries. Rolls Bind Wounds and succeeds. Okay, this is going to work! Wendel inspects the wound, cleans it out, stitches it up and binds it with clean cloth. How does it go?"

Ref: "Yes, Wendel has applied first aid and even operated on wounds many times before so he can certainly do this. Wendel takes a full 10 minutes working on Naugrim's wound Rolls 1d4=2, and in the end Naugrim feels somewhat better. He's still injured, but a bit better is better than a bit worse!"

Or let's take Naugrim's Background as an Acolyte as he goes up to the Altar to examine it closely...

Marullus: "Naugrim approaches the broken alter and examines it. With his Acolyte background he should understand the markings and use of this alter, so I get an advantage on a WIS check here right?"

Ref: "Yep, you'll roll with Advantage to figure out what this Altar is all about. I'll do it to keep things moving...Ref rolls Naugrim's WIS check with advantage...and success!"

Ref: "Okay, Naugrim sees that this altar was set up by Priests of ORD, but from the runes that have been made over the original ones it is clear that it has been desecrated by Priests of SHUNE, and then broken. Naugrim can't tell why it was broken. He sees that when the Altar was broken and moved it exposed a stairway that had been hidden under it leading down into the darkness below!"

Remember your PC can TRY ANYTHING! Frankly, I don't mind if any of you try anything and if you come up with an idea on how to apply your Background to ANY task I'll strongly consider it. I won't always go along, but I might and when I do you'll get an advantage or won't even have to roll, I'll just say you do it.

For example:

Marullus: "Naugrim spent many years in a monastery and worked some of that time in its hospital so he learned a bit about now to treat injuries. He's going to try to get that bone fragment out of Orram's shoulder and close his wound. I'll try that Bind Wounds task that Wendel uses...Rolls INT Check...Failed! Rats!"

Ref: "Good idea, though. Because it makes sense Naugrim worked in a hospital, let's give he Advantage on trying this...Rolls Naugrim's INT check again...Succeeds! Okay, well, Naugrim really isn't as good at this as Wendel, so he can get the fragment out, close the wound, but only restore 1HP to Orram. Still better than nothing, right."

Folks the take away is TRY ANYTHING!, and if you can think of a way your Background might apply throw in some narrative and see if I'll go along. I might!

[Rex]

Sounds good to me. This isn't any different really from how we have always applied secondary skills from older editions of D&D. And we always allowed anyone to try anything, just sometimes there chance of success isn't very good.

[axis57]

Eris should I have all my starting gear or what would the goblins have given me?

[Eris]

Eris should I have all my starting gear or what would the goblins have given me?

What the goblins left you. I posted something about that in the IG thread. Let me look...

Oh, axis57, you haven't got any gear listed. I know the Goblins probably took most of it, but you can have your Thieves Tools, some rations, rope and a couple of torches, if you want them.

...ah! I buried it in a post. I think I did an edit rather than a quote on a post and added the OOC parts about torches and Orram's gear. That's an oopsy on my part, sorry.

[axis57]

Ok I will add Thieves Tools, some rations, rope and a couple of torches to my sheet.