Pregame Discussion

[dmw71]

I will likely continue to drip any thoughts I have about this game here. Feel free to provide any feedback, thoughts, suggestions, or requests here as well.

Please note, all of the below topics are just tentative thoughts at this point. None of them will be considered official rules until they've been discussed or decided upon.

Topics

• Languages
• Ability Score Generation Method
• Ability Score Improvement

[dmw71]

Languages are going to be featured more prominently in this campaign. The "common" tongue is a thing, but it is more of a lingua franca than a full language allowing full fluency between every PC and every other human/demihuman being they will ever encounter.

Greyhawk has many languages; expect these to be far more important than the generic "common" language. One of the experiments I am considering is the assignment of levels to languages spoken (for example, a PC may speak Flan 2, Elven 1, Goblin 1, etc...). I haven't fully fleshed this idea out yet (and I'm open to feedback/thoughts on this), but expect a level 1 language to represent a rudimentary understanding of that language -- but not fluency. I took one semester of Spanish in high school and remember very little of it. I can count to ten, and understand a few words of it, but would be absolutely incapable of conducting a meaningful conversation with someone whose first language was Spanish (and who spoke very little English). My level of 'Spanish' language would be 1... if I'm being generous.

Again, a system for this whole 'languages' idea I have in mind is something still very much under development.

This, actually, is one of the main reasons why a player/DM collaboration will be important during the character creation process. To determine what languages your PC will speak, and at what level of fluency.

-- Originally posted here.

Thoughts?

[dmw71]

I was hesitant to post details of the method I want to use (or at least try) for this game, but I'm going to go ahead and just do it.

I welcome a conversation.

At least for everyone's first character, the method I want to use is as follows:

2d6+5

So, a range from 7-17.

Age and racial modifiers can adjust these, but I want to eliminate "terrible" rolls while also preventing any natural 18s. By design.

Keep in mind, while the proposed system does naturally prevent any maximum ability scores, I am also looking to implement an 'Ability Score Improvement' rule.


Thoughts?

[dmw71]

Maybe the single thing I remember most from the Unearthed Arcana book was the ability of the cavalier class to improve their strength, dexterity, and constitution scores.

While I don't plan to allow the cavalier class in this campaign, I am thinking of at least loosely borrowing (and enhancing!) that aspect from the cavalier and applying it to every class.

The official rule for the cavalier class:

"A cavalier undergoes continual training and practice in arms and warfare,
such that part of any day not spent adventuring must be spent in
mounted arms drill or combat practice on foot. As a result of this constant
training, the cavalier can increase his or her strength, dexterity,
and constitution scores. When a cavalier is at 1st level, percentile dice
are rolled for each of these abilities, just as they are for fighters with 18
strength. A Lancer with 15 dexterity might have 15/87 dexterity upon attaining
Armiger status. The percentage has no normal effect on play, and
the ability score is considered to be the main number (15 in this case). An
exception is percentile strength above 18, which is treated as for fighters
on the strength bonuses table.

As a cavalier attains each higher level, 2d10 are rolled and the result added
to the percentile score for strength, dexterity, and constitution. When
a percentile score goes over 100, the main score is raised by 1 and the
100 is discarded. (In the example, if the cavalier with 15/87 dexterity rolls
a 19 for this ability upon gaining 2nd level, the character’s dexterity score
is now 16/06, and is treated as a 16.) Ability scores can be raised as high
as 18/00 in this manner, even if doing so violates limitations based on
race or sex. If a cavalier loses a level, the percentile points gained for
that level are lost."

For this game, I am thinking that every player, for every ability score, will roll a percentage and record it on their character sheet. These percentages will be increased each time that character increases in level (I'll need to figure out some rule to define how to handle multi-class characters -- maybe, each time the slowest class increases in level? Or the fastest?).

The cavalier increased each of the three ability scores by 2d10 at each level. However, given the slow nature of advancement in the play-by-post format, I'm thinking that's too slow, or too insignificant.

Instead, I am thinking that each ability score will be increased by a full percentage roll at each level.

Starting value at 1st level: 12/87
Increase at 2nd level: +34%
New value at 2nd level: 13/21

Thoughts?

[Rex]

Very interesting. I have been trying to come up with a similar method for rolling scores, something that generates less sets at the ends and more in the middle. I am not opposed to an 18, just don't want them really common or some of the sets that 4d6 drop lowest seem to generate. Your idea may work, but the one I have been using recently with my table top group (for Hyperborea rpg actually) is 3d6 3 times for each stat, keep the highest. You get to re-roll any set without at least 1 15. It has worked for the most part but me and a friend rolled up over 100 characters (stats only) one evening messing around and there were a couple crazy good sets. Your 2d6+5 may be more consistent. If you wanted to force it to the middle even more, I suppose 3d4+5 might work. I am eager to see the results of an entire party. My only recommended change would be re-roll any set that doesn't have at least 1 15.

As for the increasing scores, I like the idea, but wonder if there shouldn't be some way to slow it down as the score gets higher. Maybe something like you roll below the score x2 on the d% and you don't add anything that level? Also, would it would still top out at 18/00? One thing in 1e I have never cared for as a DM is allowing 19 scores, even for the demi-human races.

[hedgeknight]

reflexes.gif (351.46 KiB) Viewed 1264 times

[dmw71]

...3d6 3 times for each stat, keep the highest...

I think I prefer 2d6+5, to avoid the "crazy good sets." It also sets the floor at 7, which 3d6 even three times may not prevent.

I suppose 3d4+5 might work.

I wouldn't be opposed to that method, as it essentially raises the floor by one (from a 7 to an 8) while keeping the limit on the upper bound.

My only recommended change would be re-roll any set that doesn't have at least 1 15.

I also have no problem with this. Either allow for a complete re-roll of all stats, or raise one of the existing rolls to 15.

As for the increasing scores, I like the idea, but wonder if there shouldn't be some way to slow it down as the score gets higher.

I thought about that... but, honestly, how many levels do we realistically expect to gain? Even if this game runs for years (and by also making it a sandbox, I'm hoping it will), advancement is so slow that I don't expect it to be an issue. The progression stops at 18/00 (or 18, for any non-strength score), and if the maximum starting ability score is 17, it will take multiple really good rolls to reach that limit.

The only 19s that will be allowed are for those that are possible in the PHB, and there are only four of those, and they will be difficult to come by.

[Rex]

Looks good. The 3d4 was just a thought, I don't think it would really make much difference. Looking forward to see how the parties scores (ie several sets) work out.

[shaidar]

2d6+5 seems a reasonable compromise. You might get a 17 up to 18 due to age adjustments.

Increasing stats like suggested seems quick, but as you say works for the speed of php. You get stat increase every two Levels on average? But that would also depend on how well your first set of rolls ended up.

[Rex]

I always forget about the stat adjustment for age in 1E.

[beniliusbob]

I feel robbed of all the natural 18s that I was undoubtedly going to roll for this character, but I will humbly submit to the wisdom of the DM!

(2d6+5 sounds great to me!)

[dmw71]

I’m out and about with the family this afternoon, but hopefully I’ll have some time later today to make some more progress on this.

It looks like we have a few general starting locations — I’ll start to dig into those areas.

I’m receiving some character concepts. I know everyone is excited to begin that process, but I’m hesitant to detail/begin character creation until I’m closer to being ready with something for those characters to actually do.

I expect for things to start coming together here soon, but ask for a bit of patience while these preparations continue to take shape.

Looking forward to getting started!

[Rex]

A few questions as I look over the PHP and DMG (was looking at ageing to start).

Will class and level restrictions for demi-humans be as per PHP?

Are you allowing the NPC only ones? (ie the ones in () on Character Race Table II PHP pg 14, these are all Clerics or Druids)

Will starting age be per DMG pg 12?

Multi-Classed Demi-humans start at max of oldest age for all classes which for a couple combos places them as middle age or even old to start play if you are allowing the Clerics for demi-humans.

Are the Age adjustments listed for the age categories on DMG pg 13 cumulative?

No problem on timing Dave, whatever works for you.

[dmw71]

Will class and level restrictions for demi-humans be as per PHP?

Yes.

Are you allowing the NPC only ones?

No. But...

We can talk more during the collaborative character creation process.

Will starting age be per DMG pg 12?

Age will be determined by the book, per the quoted page in the DMG.

Are the Age adjustments listed for the age categories on DMG pg 13 cumulative?

Yes.

[Rex]

Will class and level restrictions for demi-humans be as per PHP?

Yes.

Are you allowing the NPC only ones?

No. But...

We can talk more during the collaborative character creation process.

Will starting age be per DMG pg 12?

Age will be determined by the book, per the quoted page in the DMG.

Are the Age adjustments listed for the age categories on DMG pg 13 cumulative?

Yes.

Thanks

Still no closer to any decision, LOL.

[beniliusbob]

At least for everyone's first character, the method I want to use is as follows:

2d6+5

I'm craving some dice rolls ... is this down the line? Organize to taste? One set? Multiple sets? Etc... I honestly have no preferences, but it's lunch time and dice box is beckoning...

[dmw71]

I'm craving some dice rolls ... is this down the line? Organize to taste? One set? Multiple sets? Etc... I honestly have no preferences, but it's lunch time and dice box is beckoning...

I get it. I'm looking forward to getting this started as well.

A part of me is tempted to just scrap all the customizations I was thinking of trying to implement (since they're still not fully fleshed out in my mind yet) and just go straight by the book (which, in 1e, can still sometimes be ambiguous).

I do think I still want to use the 2d6+5 as the ability score generation method, however.

I also had the thought last night before going to bed to just scrap preparations on all the alternate starting locations (at least for now) and focus on getting started on the T1 game immediately. There's a bit I still need to do in order to get that game ready. The more time I spend getting all these alternate starting points off the ground, the longer I delay getting the actual T1 game started... which I feel like should be my priority.

I'm going to think on this, but definitely feel free to share your opinions on this.

[gurusql]

Pick the one that will let you enjoy things the most - we will all be here to support you.

[Rex]

Agreed. We will be here.

[shaidar]

Absolutely what they said