Character Generation - Second Generation

[Marullus]

I consider groups equal: everyone second level with +5 Karma.

[Marullus]

*bump*

Welcome to the weekend! How's everyone doing with new characters?

All characters will be Level 2 with 5 Karma (65 total attributes to distribute). So far we have:

• Jemmus: A ninja
• Jemmus: Undecided second character
• Ffilz: Keiso, a Gakusho carpenter (Sheet)
• Samwell Turleton: A bushi, Souta's older sister
• Samwell Turleton: Continuation of Satake no Taka, with plot developments!
• jmacatty: A bushi, Ha's brother
• jmacatty: A bushi, undefined

Reiterating the post from the previous page on recommended minimum attributes. Also, the best current Bushi sheet.

Moving in conversations from the OOC thread so I can find them...

Yeah, I'm ready to play with 2 characters. I've already started on them. I'm thinking the one with the extra karma will be Ha's brother, who woke up one morning with the knowledge that he needed to avenge Ha. Don't ask me how. He will be a bushi who really specializes in the dai-kyu.

The second character will be a more typical bushi, of course largely dependent on his rank roll.

I think I'm just going to continue with a single character. I'm stalling out on energy to go through all the steps. Keiso is ready other that I need a price and weight for a fishing kit. Oh, I also need weight and details for his carpentry tools. I may have to tune his encumbrance depending on how we decide to proceed.

His sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ue&sd=true

[ffilz]

I decided to roll up a bushi also, and rolled 1 on the status table... So we have a high ranking samurai in service. Before I go much farther in filling him out, I figured we should decide how that plays into things. He doesn't have a horse (missed by 2... 62 and needed a 60 or less)... Will have AC 7. Given name Yoshida but figure family name needs to fit into the scenario...

On skills, I see in service says "add bajutsu" is that an additional skill, or an addition to the "pick one of" list. If not in addition, I think he'll take Hawking from the pick one of list.

He starts with almost as much cash as we earned in the other game... 9 gold, 21 silver, 210 copper...

[jemmus]

Wow, nice! The could add some interest plot twists. I'm pretty sure my second character will be a bushi (Toshizo's older brother, so low ronin). Can't play Bushido and not have a bushi in the game. By the way, ninja PCs are really interesting. They get so many skills and there are so many options for them.

[Marullus]

Very Cool!

Yes, that will definitely help define the story.

You can be from any of the high-status families:

• Washima: Overcame infighting 10 years ago and now rules a coalition of families, creating lasting peace through intermarriage.
• Tadamasa: Second-most powerful in the province, they control the road leading to Takayama (the Washima capital) and interaction with Etchu province. The heir to clan leadership is married to a member of the Washima as are several high ranking clan members. The integration of the two clans is well underway although the current clan head will not, due to pride, admit it.
• Satake: (Taka's clan) They rule the northcentral portion of the province and are least-happy of the current situation and solidarity among the Washima and Tadamasa. The clan believes their elders should be ruling the province and are a voice of opposition to the Washima in the councils. However, the internal clan politics are fraught in the past few months. The clan head is Kwanran, formerly Satake Takuan, who caused ripples by taking Buddhist vows. His eldest son, nominally positioned to lead rather than uncles or cousins, was then assassinated and his sister (Taka, now eldest) went to seek the culprit (suspected to be Tadamasa) in a blood oath or vengance. Whether Taka returns and tries to stake a claim or another family member steps in to lead the clan is to be determined...
• Oguroyumi: They rule the mountainous terrain in the northwest and like their territory they are a rough-hewn and rugged clan. The Wahsima find their martial strength and vigor a pillar in the support of provincial policies. The daimyo, himself, is said to favor warriors from this area for his own bodyguard.
• Other province: The neighbors are unfriendly. If you want to be In Service AND from a neighboring province, you're in service to an OPPOSING Daimyo and here either for politics, espionage, or to foment rebellion...

"In service" means you're personally sworn to the Daimyo, Washima Fuhito.

If the Samurai remains in service to his Lord, the Gamesmaster will
use the rules governing Retainers, in Book 2, to determine his
stipend or fief, and to keep track of his obligations to his Lord.

2082.1 SAMURAI INCOME
The Samurai in service to a Daimyo received an income in one of
two forms. Lower ranking members of the Clan were given an annual
Stipend, a salary in effect. This paid for their housing and provided
funds for their arms and armor. Higher paying Stipends required the
Samurai to provide a number of men-at-arms for military service.
The high ranking retainer received a Fief instead of money. This
entailed direct control of a parcel of land, the places on it and the
inhabitants. The Samurai was expected to maintain law in the Fief,
develop its resources for his Clan, and command troops raised in the
area.

I am not sure I entirely understand being "in service." Using the above two quotes, that implies you are personally sworn to the Daimyo (Wahsima Fuhito) and you have a Fief or a salary.

You also know the information below (from the Backround Thread).

General: Things Everyone Knows

• The Daimyo of Hida province is Washima Fuhito, who rules from Takayama.
• The Washima are the highest status Buke clan in Hida province (as the Daimyo's family), with the Tadamasa, Satake*, and Oguroyumi families of middle rank.
• The pre-eminence of the Washima began about 10 years ago when Washima Fuhito came to power after a multi-year struggle amongst the families.

Things that Buke of Hida Province Know (Ha, Taka)

• The Washima rule the city of Takayama and the prime lands which surround it (the best for rice and also for breeding horses) and are recognized by the Shogunate as being a full Daimyo over the province. The situation is otherwise more complex, with the Washima wielding influence through a coalition of near-peer clans. These councils meet in Takayama.
• The landlocked mountain valleys of Hida province import a significant amount of rice but are blessed with large amounts of lumber, which is known throughout Nippon for its durability and beauty.
• Relations by the Washima (and thus all of Hida) are unfriendly with clans of Mino province and Echizen province.
• The most recent military clash of arms in the province was on the southern border - the hostility of Ishiyama Hosomune towards Washima Fuhito make clashes here common.
• Tensions are currently high with the Mizobara (the rulers of Etchu province), who are levying high tolls on goods entering Hida province. The Washima want all families to apply pressure to the Mizobara to reduce these tolls.

[ffilz]

Yea, so this clearly means some consideration how to best fit the character in. That might preclude continuing the previous fight, unless the character is in service with the daimyo who is responsible for the war camp. I never fully understood the whole situation, and I've tried to forget what I did learn in order to not spoil the play.

[Marullus]

You are free to pick the family whose intrigue you like best. What happens with the adventure (and war camp) will be redefined based on the direction you take. The main consideration is relation to Taka, which Turlton can weigh in regarding, because that's involving two PCs and having you be on a complementary path will help. Otherwise, the NPC stories will easily shift.

[ffilz]

OK, Satake sounds best, and makes the most sense for an in service samurai being sent on an "adventure" - to find out what happened to Taka.

Now to repeat the question about Bajutsu as an extra skill, or just an extra option for that choice skill. Though without a horse, Bajutsu is less relevant.

[Marullus]

Yes, Bajutsu is free. (And +5 for all Samurai.)

Okay, you would either be a Satake cousin who stands to inherit title instead of Taka or Taka's younger brother (the older brother being assassinated). To be personally In Service to the Daimyo, it is most likely that you were a child-exchange - you were taken from the Satake household as a boy and raised/trained with the Washima (this is common in this area). Whether that ultimately made you more or less loyal is up to you, but it explains why the younger sibling has a personal Daimyo relationship. If you are a Satske cousin you could be older (even an uncle) and have a Fief instead of a salary, but you are specifically being rewarded for an expectation of greater future loyalty and presumed clan loyalty.

[jemmus]

Very Cool!

Yes, that will definitely help define the story.

You can be from any of the high-status families:

• Washima: Overcame infighting 10 years ago and now rules a coalition of families, creating lasting peace through intermarriage.
• Tadamasa: Second-most powerful in the province, they control the road leading to Takayama (the Washima capital) and interaction with Etchu province. The heir to clan leadership is married to a member of the Washima as are several high ranking clan members. The integration of the two clans is well underway although the current clan head will not, due to pride, admit it.
• Satake: (Taka's clan) They rule the northcentral portion of the province and are least-happy of the current situation and solidarity among the Washima and Tadamasa. The clan believes their elders should be ruling the province and are a voice of opposition to the Washima in the councils. However, the internal clan politics are fraught in the past few months. The clan head is Kwanran, formerly Satake Takuan, who caused ripples by taking Buddhist vows. His eldest son, nominally positioned to lead rather than uncles or cousins, was then assassinated and his sister (Taka, now eldest) went to seek the culprit (suspected to be Tadamasa) in a blood oath or vengance. Whether Taka returns and tries to stake a claim or another family member steps in to lead the clan is to be determined...
• Oguroyumi: They rule the mountainous terrain in the northwest and like their territory they are a rough-hewn and rugged clan. The Wahsima find their martial strength and vigor a pillar in the support of provincial policies. The daimyo, himself, is said to favor warriors from this area for his own bodyguard.
• Other province: The neighbors are unfriendly. If you want to be In Service AND from a neighboring province, you're in service to an OPPOSING Daimyo and here either for politics, espionage, or to foment rebellion...

"In service" means you're personally sworn to the Daimyo, Washima Fuhito.

• The Daimyo of Hida province is Washima Fuhito, who rules from Takayama.
• The Washima are the highest status Buke clan in Hida province (as the Daimyo's family), with the Tadamasa, Satake*, and Oguroyumi families of middle rank.
• The pre-eminence of the Washima began about 10 years ago when Washima Fuhito came to power after a multi-year struggle amongst the families.

Things that Buke of Hida Province Know (Ha, Taka)

• The Washima rule the city of Takayama and the prime lands which surround it (the best for rice and also for breeding horses) and are recognized by the Shogunate as being a full Daimyo over the province. The situation is otherwise more complex, with the Washima wielding influence through a coalition of near-peer clans. These councils meet in Takayama.
• The landlocked mountain valleys of Hida province import a significant amount of rice but are blessed with large amounts of lumber, which is known throughout Nippon for its durability and beauty.
• Relations by the Washima (and thus all of Hida) are unfriendly with clans of Mino province and Echizen province.
• The most recent military clash of arms in the province was on the southern border - the hostility of Ishiyama Hosomune towards Washima Fuhito make clashes here common.
• Tensions are currently high with the Mizobara (the rulers of Etchu province), who are levying high tolls on goods entering Hida province. The Washima want all families to apply pressure to the Mizobara to reduce these tolls.

Marullus, maybe you could save this somewhere where we can easily find it and refer to it later? Having a samurai in service in the mix is going to be really interesting along the way, I think. Also, I think Frank's char can easily afford to buy a horse along the way.

[ffilz]

I've got Satake Motoyuki going pretty good in the spread sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Trying to figure out a "wearing armor" load out... What's the minimum equipment he needs.

He can manage armor (40), dai-sho (8), 3 man dai-kyu (9), quiver (1), 10 arrows (1), geta (1) and stay in the 60 for unencumbered with a 30 STR.

If he could manage to steal one point from somewhere for a 31 STR, he'd have a 4 man bow (10) and be a total of 61 out of 62...

Without a horse he's going to be walking around partially encumbered... I think he's going to hire a porter to carry his gear...

When he's walking unarmored, encumbrance is no problem so long as a porter caries his armor...

He won't be buying a horse anytime soon with only 9 gold... (riding horse is 16 gold 8 silver, warhorse is 41 gold 8 silver).

[jemmus]

I'm going to commit to finalizing my ninja PC this weekend. Chargen for the bushi one will be much quicker and easier, because I've played bushi before and semi know what I'm doing this time around.

[Marullus]

Yea, so this clearly means some consideration how to best fit the character in. That might preclude continuing the previous fight, unless the character is in service with the daimyo who is responsible for the war camp. I never fully understood the whole situation, and I've tried to forget what I did learn in order to not spoil the play.

I didn't want to forget to answer this. You had not yet discovered who was leading the war camp. You only discovered the name of the merchant who is funding it, who's son sent you on the mission, and who bragged his sister was betrothed to the guy-in-charge as reason for him to be respected. (The result of your social rolls was that you would be brought in-the-know only once you proved yourself by finishing the mission against the bandits.) However, the fact that it is a secret camp hidden in the mountains means it is almost certainly being raised AGAINST the Daimyo. With an in-service Bushi, the new group will not start at the camp but again in town.

...

The updated list (from notes here):

• Ffilz: Satake Motoyuki, a Bushi In-Service to the Daimyo. (Sheet)
• Samwell Turleton: Continuation of Satake Taka, with plot developments!
• Samwell Turleton: A bushi, Souta's older brother/sister
• jmacatty: A bushi, Ha's brother
• jmacatty: A bushi, undefined
• Jemmus: Undecided second character (presumably Bushi)
• Jemmus: A ninja (finishing over the past weekend)
• Ffilz: Keiso, a Gakusho carpenter (Sheet)

Ffilz: For Satake Motoyuki, is he Taka's younger brother who was raised in the Washima household as an exchange and now of-age? Or is he Taka's older uncle who has favor for clan leadership with his brother's abdication to Buddhism and his nephew's death? (Either way, he has support of the Washima by being in-service to the Daimyo and she doesn't. Clan leadership and influence between him and Taka will be an IC plot and resolve in-play based on your PCs interactions.)

Ffilz: What has occured to create the unlikely situation where Satake Motoyuki is arriving without a horse? (I mean, you had a 60% chance for a reason!) Is he the young ward and left quietly to find his sister, not wanting to affront the Daimyo by taking a Washima horse? Is he the uncle and his fief so poor he couldn't afford one? Did he have one leaving home and if so, what happened to it on his way here to create this unfortunate temporary shame of poverty?


Looking for an update from jmacatty and Samwell Turlton. Both have checked in that they're still in for the game but busy with some IRL stuff (which I completely understand). I don't mind giving time for them. I likely won't be ready to kick-off here for two weeks, anyway, because of my own schedule. Let's see if we can get things solidified by Friday, Feb 18th?

[ffilz]

I'd love advice on Motoyuki. I hope my really good roll for social position doesn't lead to a character I feel unqualified to play...

What are the ramifications of staying in the Daimyo's service or leaving it?

the young ward and left quietly to find his sister, not wanting to affront the Daimyo by taking a Washima horse

That sounds like leaving the Daimyo's service, or at least asking for a leave of absence.

Is he the uncle and his fief so poor he couldn't afford one

I'm totally at a loss for the way social status works. It seems odd that a high ranking samurai would be in service without a horse. Is there a reason to send a samurai on a mission on foot?

Otherwise it seems to me that not getting a horse means some kind of loss or shame.

I'm not particularly interested in a story path of competing with Taka for clan leadership, so a family relation that would leave Motoyuki as a trusted supporter of Taka would fit my player personality better.

Is there a reason for the Daimyo to have an interest in Taka? Could Motoyuki actually be on a mission to quietly help her, and mute his station by being on foot?

Would there be different skill picks that would help set his direction? His Bugei picks certainly could be different.

[Marullus]

What are the ramifications of staying in the Daimyo's service or leaving it?

...probably a lot. Too much to really speculate, imho. At the least it would be a huge loss of honor to publicly renounce a vow you made of that magnitude. I'll defer to Jemmus - historical context?

the young ward and left quietly to find his sister, not wanting to affront the Daimyo by taking a Washima horse

That sounds like leaving the Daimyo's service, or at least asking for a leave of absence.

Is he the uncle and his fief so poor he couldn't afford one

I'm totally at a loss for the way social status works. It seems odd that a high ranking samurai would be in service without a horse. Is there a reason to send a samurai on a mission on foot?

Otherwise it seems to me that not getting a horse means some kind of loss or shame.

Yes - I think you need to explain either a loss or a shame. I think arriving as an in-service samurai without a horse is an issue worth addressing. There's a reason you had a 60% chance of success... you were supposed to be likely to get one. I considered overriding it and letting you have one to fulfill expectations, then I decided to ask it this way first to see if you could come up with a roleplay answer - harm befell you, or you are embarrassingly poor - that you would be willing to play with.

Equally importantly, you need to nail down what concept you're playing. I suggested two: the younger brother raised in the Washima household or the uncle who stands to inherit and has Washima support. You can pick one of those or make up a third, but a lot of next steps storywise depend on who you are.

I'm not particularly interested in a story path of competing with Taka for clan leadership, so a family relation that would leave Motoyuki as a trusted supporter of Taka would fit my player personality better.

How that relationship plays out is completely an IC matter. What you're saying is an entirely reasonable end-state for us to arrive at when you interact in play. (Though, you know OOC and not IC that Taka is subject to geas/control of some kind by a Mountain Hag, which may influence how that unfolds. )

I am also delaying to make sure Samwell Turlton can get back on his feet and join us to play Taka. If he doesn't, then she's an NPC and that may change your calculations, too.

What I want to be clear about, though, is this: Outside influences are setting you up to conflict. Factions within your family are setting you up to conflict. You as PCs can determine your own relationship, but there's a fault line here and other people have goals FOR you.

Is there a reason for the Daimyo to have an interest in Taka? Could Motoyuki actually be on a mission to quietly help her, and mute his station by being on foot?

The Daimyo absolutely is interested in Taka.

As an in-service Buke you have enough experience and relationship that the Daimyo isn't a stranger to you... you've taken personal vows to serve him. Thus you know that his interest is to create a peaceful mountain valley out of Hida province by creating mutual ties by both politics and marriage between the families. He rose to Daimyo out of internal strife only 10 years ago, so you certainly remember that time (depending on concept/age, your views will be different).

The Satake family are his biggest detractors in council, harboring the view that they should have won and should be in charge. Your family has resisted intermarriage (which was probably a desired option for Taka before she became a Shugenja and lost On... but could be again if she sought it). The current crisis in the clan where the leader goes Buddhist, his son gets murdered, and his daughter (Taka) goes missing is the opportunity to shift the pieces on the board for both the Daimyo AND the other family elders. You two are both important chess pieces.

The fact that you are specifically in-service means you not only would have family holdings or loyalties. It means you are specifically given a fief or salary by the WASHIMA DAIMYO in addition to what your family holds. The Daimyo has publicly declared you to be "his guy" in the Satake clan. Perhaps not his only guy, but that's significant nonetheless.

The Daimyo would clearly expect that you would make choices in his interest regarding Taka, resulting in a closer relationship between the Washinma and Satake, creating more stability and less risk of violent warfare in the Hida valley. (You may or may not end up doing so... but expectations.)

Would there be different skill picks that would help set his direction? His Bugei picks certainly could be different.

I would suggest Heraldry. Knowing the players of the game in the province seems like a thing he'd have given what we know so far.

I think anything else is really preference. He will have sword and bow. The strategy bugei (Senjo-jutsu) would be relevant if he was trained for war and you wanted to engage the Battle system (such as for or against the war camp) because you will almost certainly be the highest-status person and put in charge of troops. But if you want him to go a different direction I have no issue with it. You need to decide who he is, what he likes, and how he will be fun to play.

[jemmus]

Historically, I've only heard of samurai leaving service to a daimyo by becoming a Buddhist monk, or by seppuku. And usually they became monks because of pressure from above, and as an alternative to seppuku. As a practical matter, no samurai wanted to give up his fief or stipend income and become just another commoner.

More powerful (in terms of troops and land) would sometimes defect to an enemy clan. But they were still "in service," just to a different daimyo. Later on (starting in the 1300s), there were plenty of instances of samurai overthrowing their daimyo and becoming daimyo themselves. That could be an interesting but maybe pretty complex plotline for Motoyuki.

Maybe Motoyuki had a horse, but it died on the way to where we first meet Motoyuki?

Sorry, I failed in my commitment to finish my ninja over the weekend. I was doing some Cold Iron stuff and rushing to create a character for Inferno's Hyborian Age AD&D 1E game. Now I know why he was in a hurry-- there was about to be a TPK and they needed another PC dealing out damage. I plan to work on the ninja this evening.

[ffilz]

Hmm, a lot to ponder how to fit this character in with my tendencies and my grasp of the genre as a player... It does seem like there's no way out of Motoyuki being cast against Taka for clan leadership. I guess we'll have to see how that plays out...

Given that the horse is only a 60/40 thing for a high status in service samurai, and ranges down to 20/80 for low status, the authors of Bushido must have envisioned plenty of in service samurai NOT having a horse. I think we need to consider the "implied setting" the mechanics are presenting and consider reasonable options that don't put a PC already at a severe dishonor. But I dunno, my grasp of the genre is rather limited.

Gah, I'm just feeling way over my head... I just know from my personal gaming history that when a campaign tends toward too much "society play" whether as GM or player, I get frustrated, I'm much more of a "simple adventurer" RPG kind of guy...

The Gakusho PCs have served me well because their position in society is respected but not leaders.

Not that I need another Gakusho, but thought just crossed my mind... Though PC starting age range doesn't fit... Play Taka's father...

[Marullus]

I'm finding the correlation between Feudal Japan and Feudal Europe to be helpful, as their systems are more similar than I originally imagined.

Emperor - King.

Daimyo - Dukes who run counties/shires/provinces of the King's territory.

Samurai in Service - Count/Earl/Marquis and other landed nobility. They are charged with a specific fief and draw income from its commoners, but owe allegience (including mustering troops) to the Lord they serve.

Buke - "Sir/Lady" Knights. Accorded social respect due to their displayed strength-in-arms; inheriting armor, weapons, and warhorses as the wealth-of-strength. They have varying sized estates (reflecting High/Medium/Low status) that provide for their families and ensure ongoing and inherited capability and loyalty to the system. They even both rely on Duels (tournaments) to receive honor/respect, show worth in this martial strata of society, and potentially gain wealth of the losers.

Ronin - Hedge Knights. Equal in skill, but without the social backing. Their goal is to get recognized with an estate and enter the above class. Provide an important tier of "marshallable force" in times of war so the nobles have other good fighters who can die first... the main problem being that those that live need to be rewarded, but hopefully enough titled people died to make room.

Merchant Class. Same thing.

Peasant Class. Same thing.

[Marullus]

I gave a few options for why he might not have a horse:

Is he the young ward and left quietly to find his sister, not wanting to affront the Daimyo by taking a Washima horse?
Is he the uncle and his fief so poor he couldn't afford one?
Did he have one leaving home and if so, what happened to it on his way here to create this unfortunate temporary shame of poverty?

It is viable to not have one, to construct a reason he came without one, or to have had it lost/killed/stolen in transit.

If you really don't want to RP it, I can just allow him to be horsed. It's kind of a dumb roll.


Sorry you're overwhelmed. The above comparison is supposed to help - "in service" basically means you're an Earl with land and a title. If this were traditional fantasy, you could play any number of scenarios with that background... same here. Maybe your impersonating a lower individual and hiding your status so you can find what happened to Taka more authentically. Maybe you were attacked on the road (like the Kuge noble, after all). Add that to the list of options above.

Thanks for telling me that "Game of Thrones" is not the style you want. I just accomodate that. The social pressures can be off-screen if it isn't fun. This is about fun. I'm glad to adjust anything as we go if things aren't fun.

[ffilz]

Hmm, at age 21, seems like he's unlikely to be the uncle, but whatever relation to Taka that makes sense. I guess if in service primarily means landed, then his going off to find out what happened to Taka doesn't need to be shirking his service. Perhaps his estate IS about the poorest, so he doesn't have someone else to send (or doesn't want to put his trust in someone). As a poor estate he just doesn't have a horse. On the other hand, if you're willing to overlook the horse roll, it would sure be handy to have a horse so he can carry all his stuff... Otherwise he definitely needs to hire a porter.