Thief/Rogue differences between AD&D 1e and 2e?
Thief/Rogue differences between AD&D 1e and 2e?
Hey all, I could use your help. I'm playing a thief in Ithril's 2e D&D game, and I'm only really familiar with 1e. Anyone know of a cheatsheet or quick write up of the differences?
Re: Thief/Rogue differences between AD&D 1e and 2e?
I have an old 1e-to-2e comparison link bookmarked which will offer a decent summary:
If needed, I can try to add more specifics later today, but I think one of the best changes introduced in 2e was the improvement made to the thief class, which now offers them much greater flexibility and customization.
From earlier posts wrote:44. Thieves now allocate a number of percentage points to each
skill at 1st level and with each additional level increase to
their various skills instead of having each skill increase by
the same amount for all thieves.
45. The pick pockets skill functions differently.
46. The open locks skill functions differently.
47. Thieves can now remain hidden in the shadows while making
very small, slow movements; and a hidden thief is equally
hidden from creatures with or without infravision.
If needed, I can try to add more specifics later today, but I think one of the best changes introduced in 2e was the improvement made to the thief class, which now offers them much greater flexibility and customization.
Re: Thief/Rogue differences between AD&D 1e and 2e?
You'll obviously want to check with your DM to see if they have any special rules about how the thief class functions, but here are how thieving skills work in 2e, from the PurpleWorm website (with slight edits made by me for demonstration purposes):
To determine the initial value of each skill, start with the base scores listed on Table 26.
To these base scores, add (or subtract) any appropriate modifiers for:
The scores arrived at in the preceding paragraph do not reflect the effort a thief has spent honing his skills.
To simulate this extra training, all thieves at 1st level receive 60 discretionary percentage points that they can add to their base scores.
Each time the thief rises a level in experience, the player receives another 30 points to distribute.
As an option, the DM can rule that some portion of the points earned must be applied to skills used during the course of the adventure.
To these base scores, add (or subtract) any appropriate modifiers for:
The scores arrived at in the preceding paragraph do not reflect the effort a thief has spent honing his skills.
To simulate this extra training, all thieves at 1st level receive 60 discretionary percentage points that they can add to their base scores.
- No more than 30 points can be assigned to any single skill.
- Other than this restriction, the player can distribute the points however he wants.
Each time the thief rises a level in experience, the player receives another 30 points to distribute.
- No more than 15 points per level can be assigned to a single skill, and
- No skill can be raised above 95 percent, including all adjustments for Dexterity, race, and armor.
As an option, the DM can rule that some portion of the points earned must be applied to skills used during the course of the adventure.
Re: Thief/Rogue differences between AD&D 1e and 2e?
Note: I will go through and clean this up later (to summarize, and not just copy the text from each source in its entirety), but here are the rules noted as being different from the above comparison:
Picking Pockets fails if a score above the percentage shown for the level of thief
attempting the function is generated. If the score is 21% or more above the
number shown, the victim notices the thief’s attempt. The potential victim reduces
the thief’s chances for success by 5% for every level of experience he or she is
above the 3rd, i.e. -5% at 4th level, etc. For example, a high level thief (Master
Thief, 12th level) is planning to pick the pockets of a magic-user he has noticed
nearby. The base chance for success is 100%, the thief is a half-elf and adds
10% for racial ability; the thief also has 18 dexterity ability score, so another
10% is added. This totals a nice, safe 120% — can’t fail! However, the victim
happens to be 12th level also, so the subtraction is 9 × -5% = -45%. This brings
the chance for success down to 75%. A good chance, but if 96% or higher is
rolled, the thief will be noticed, and . . . Success gains an item from the victim;
the item is determined at random from a list of possessions unless the exact
location of a particular item is known by the thief.
2e
Pick Pockets: The thief uses this skill
when filching small items from other peoples’
pockets, sleeves, girdles, packs, etc.,
when palming items (such as keys), and
when performing simple sleight of hand.
A failed attempt means the thief did not
get an item, but it does not mean that his
attempt was detected. To determine whether
the victim noticed the thief’s indiscretion,
subtract three times the victim’s level from
100. If the thief’s pick pockets roll was equal
to or greater than this number, the attempt is
detected. A 0th-level victim, for example,
notices the attempt only if the roll was 00
(100), while a 13th-level character notices
the attempt on a dice roll of 61 or more. In
some cases, the attempt may succeed and
be noticed at the same time.
A thief can try to pick someone’s pocket as many times as
he wants. Neither failure nor success prevents additional
attempts, but getting caught might!
Opening Locks may be attempted by any given thief but once per lock. If the
score generated exceeds the adjusted (for ability and race) base score, the thief
has failed; and no amount of trying will ever enable him or her to succeed with
that lock, although the thief may try again when he or she has risen to a higher
level of experience. Success opens the lock.
2e
Open Locks: A thief can try to pick padlocks, finesse combination
locks (if they exist), and solve puzzle locks (locks
with sliding panels, hidden releases, and concealed keyholes).
Picking a padlock requires tools. Using typical thief’s
tools grants normal chances for success. Using improvised
tools (a bit of wire, a thin dirk, a stick, etc.) imposes a penalty
on the character’s chance for success. The DM sets the penalty
based on the situation; penalties can range from –5 for
an improvised but suitable tool, to –60 for an awkward and
unsuitable item (like a stick). The amount of time required to
pick a lock is 1d10 rounds. A thief can try to pick a particular
lock only once per experience level. If the attempt fails, the
lock is simply too difficult for the character until he learns
more about picking locks (goes up a level).
Hiding in Shadows cannot be accomplished under direct observation. It can be
accomplished with respect to creatures with infravision (q.v.) only if some heat
producing light source is near to the creature or to the thief attempting to so
hide. Success makes the thief virtually invisible until he or she moves. Note that
spells such as detect invisibility or true seeing will reveal a thief hiding in
shadows if such sight is directed towards him or her.
2e
Hide in Shadows: A thief can try to disappear into shadows
or any other type of concealment—bushes, curtains,
crannies, etc. A thief can hide this way only when no one is
looking at him; he remains hidden only as long as he
remains virtually motionless. (The thief can make small,
slow, careful movements: draw a weapon, uncork a potion,
etc.) A thief can never become hidden while a guard is
watching him, no matter what his dice roll is—his position is
obvious to the guard. However, trying to hide from a creature
that is locked in battle with another is possible, as the
enemy’s attention is fixed elsewhere. The DM rolls the dice
and keeps the result secret, but the thief always
thinks he is hidden.
Hiding in shadows cannot be done in total
darkness, since the talent lies in fooling the eye
as much as in finding real concealment (camouflage,
as it were). However, hidden characters are
equally concealed to those with or without infravision.
Spells, magical items, and special abilities
that reveal invisible objects can reveal the location
of a hidden thief.
1e
Picking Pockets fails if a score above the percentage shown for the level of thief
attempting the function is generated. If the score is 21% or more above the
number shown, the victim notices the thief’s attempt. The potential victim reduces
the thief’s chances for success by 5% for every level of experience he or she is
above the 3rd, i.e. -5% at 4th level, etc. For example, a high level thief (Master
Thief, 12th level) is planning to pick the pockets of a magic-user he has noticed
nearby. The base chance for success is 100%, the thief is a half-elf and adds
10% for racial ability; the thief also has 18 dexterity ability score, so another
10% is added. This totals a nice, safe 120% — can’t fail! However, the victim
happens to be 12th level also, so the subtraction is 9 × -5% = -45%. This brings
the chance for success down to 75%. A good chance, but if 96% or higher is
rolled, the thief will be noticed, and . . . Success gains an item from the victim;
the item is determined at random from a list of possessions unless the exact
location of a particular item is known by the thief.
2e
Pick Pockets: The thief uses this skill
when filching small items from other peoples’
pockets, sleeves, girdles, packs, etc.,
when palming items (such as keys), and
when performing simple sleight of hand.
A failed attempt means the thief did not
get an item, but it does not mean that his
attempt was detected. To determine whether
the victim noticed the thief’s indiscretion,
subtract three times the victim’s level from
100. If the thief’s pick pockets roll was equal
to or greater than this number, the attempt is
detected. A 0th-level victim, for example,
notices the attempt only if the roll was 00
(100), while a 13th-level character notices
the attempt on a dice roll of 61 or more. In
some cases, the attempt may succeed and
be noticed at the same time.
If the DM wishes, he can rule that a thief of higher level
than his victim is less likely to be caught pilfering. The
chance that the victim notices the attempt can be modified
by subtracting the victim’s level from the thief’s
level, and then adding this number to the percentage
chance the thief is detected. For example, Ragnar, a
15th-level thief, tries to pick the pocket of Horace, a 9thlevel
fighter. Normally, Ragnar would be detected if his
pick pockets roll was 73 or more (100–[39]=73).
Using this optional system, since Ragnar is six levels
higher than Horace, this number is increased by six to
79 (73+6=79). This option only applies if the thief is
higher level than his victim.
than his victim is less likely to be caught pilfering. The
chance that the victim notices the attempt can be modified
by subtracting the victim’s level from the thief’s
level, and then adding this number to the percentage
chance the thief is detected. For example, Ragnar, a
15th-level thief, tries to pick the pocket of Horace, a 9thlevel
fighter. Normally, Ragnar would be detected if his
pick pockets roll was 73 or more (100–[39]=73).
Using this optional system, since Ragnar is six levels
higher than Horace, this number is increased by six to
79 (73+6=79). This option only applies if the thief is
higher level than his victim.
A thief can try to pick someone’s pocket as many times as
he wants. Neither failure nor success prevents additional
attempts, but getting caught might!
1e
Opening Locks may be attempted by any given thief but once per lock. If the
score generated exceeds the adjusted (for ability and race) base score, the thief
has failed; and no amount of trying will ever enable him or her to succeed with
that lock, although the thief may try again when he or she has risen to a higher
level of experience. Success opens the lock.
2e
Open Locks: A thief can try to pick padlocks, finesse combination
locks (if they exist), and solve puzzle locks (locks
with sliding panels, hidden releases, and concealed keyholes).
Picking a padlock requires tools. Using typical thief’s
tools grants normal chances for success. Using improvised
tools (a bit of wire, a thin dirk, a stick, etc.) imposes a penalty
on the character’s chance for success. The DM sets the penalty
based on the situation; penalties can range from –5 for
an improvised but suitable tool, to –60 for an awkward and
unsuitable item (like a stick). The amount of time required to
pick a lock is 1d10 rounds. A thief can try to pick a particular
lock only once per experience level. If the attempt fails, the
lock is simply too difficult for the character until he learns
more about picking locks (goes up a level).
1e
Hiding in Shadows cannot be accomplished under direct observation. It can be
accomplished with respect to creatures with infravision (q.v.) only if some heat
producing light source is near to the creature or to the thief attempting to so
hide. Success makes the thief virtually invisible until he or she moves. Note that
spells such as detect invisibility or true seeing will reveal a thief hiding in
shadows if such sight is directed towards him or her.
2e
Hide in Shadows: A thief can try to disappear into shadows
or any other type of concealment—bushes, curtains,
crannies, etc. A thief can hide this way only when no one is
looking at him; he remains hidden only as long as he
remains virtually motionless. (The thief can make small,
slow, careful movements: draw a weapon, uncork a potion,
etc.) A thief can never become hidden while a guard is
watching him, no matter what his dice roll is—his position is
obvious to the guard. However, trying to hide from a creature
that is locked in battle with another is possible, as the
enemy’s attention is fixed elsewhere. The DM rolls the dice
and keeps the result secret, but the thief always
thinks he is hidden.
Hiding in shadows cannot be done in total
darkness, since the talent lies in fooling the eye
as much as in finding real concealment (camouflage,
as it were). However, hidden characters are
equally concealed to those with or without infravision.
Spells, magical items, and special abilities
that reveal invisible objects can reveal the location
of a hidden thief.
-
OGRE MAGE
- First Gentleman
- Posts: 37509
- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:16 pm
- Location: The Birthplace of RPG's
Re: Thief/Rogue differences between AD&D 1e and 2e?
I know who I am going to ask the next time I have a question about 2E. 
Re: Thief/Rogue differences between AD&D 1e and 2e?
I actually don't know 2e that well. I just remember key aspects of it that I thought were improvements, with thief class being one of the primary examples.
Also the surprise and (potentially) initiative mechanics.
-
Bluetongue
- Ranger Lord
- Posts: 3006
- Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:30 am
Re: Thief/Rogue differences between AD&D 1e and 2e?
Leitz for your character Igber:
Look at the thief class skills in page 28 of the player's guide that we are using. You have skills set as a % based on your level and adjusted by racial bonuses or penalties and dexterity bonus as listed in page 12.
Looking at your character sheet (notes section), the skills are listed with the breakdown of how the total is realised.
Look at the thief class skills in page 28 of the player's guide that we are using. You have skills set as a % based on your level and adjusted by racial bonuses or penalties and dexterity bonus as listed in page 12.
Looking at your character sheet (notes section), the skills are listed with the breakdown of how the total is realised.