(011a) Jump to Extolay

[Eris]

"I'm so sorry to hear of your Engineer's untimely death." Sir Baltus says, and he appears sincere when he says so.

"No, no complaints from any of us and all were at breakfast this morning." Baltus purses this lips, "You think it was something he ate? Perhaps he had an allergy he did't know he had...hum, we did have that shell fish last night? I know some people are allergic to those sort of things."

Pedro shakes his head "We don't know at this point. He'd never mentioned any such allergy to us, and he ate the shrimp with the rest of us, so if he was allergic, he didn't know it either. I am glad to hear everyone else is ok. " He sighs "Well, I have to get back to running the ship, now that I'm down an engineer. Another hat to wear!" He smiles and shakes Sir Baltus hand, and heads back to crew territory to check in with Emily again.

"I'll pass the sad news along to my people and advice them to keep an eye on each other and themselves for any sort of symptoms." Sir Baltus says shaking Pedro's hand.

[Eris]

Emily has everything under control but the task list is already stretching her a bit. It’s only going to get worse as she falls behind in the task list. She has a list of things that might be done by others or under supervision that will help. No matter how it plays out, she’s going to get very little sleep over the next week but isn’t worried.

Pedro will take shifts to spell her and also second John Lee to her as assistant. He doesn't have engineering, but he has some related mechanics skills. Hopefully this helps her deal with the task list. Sigrun will need to take some longer bridge shifts to cover for when Pedro's working in Engineering. "If we're lucky we might find someone on Extolay."

“There are some things we can defer, but I’m trying to stay vigilant. There have been too many unpleasant surprises since I signed on and I definitely don’t want another on my watch.”

Emily knows she can’t keep an eye on everything, but she’ll be spot checking systems to make sure there are no unauthorized modifications. Sabotage would be ugly and she wants to get a jump if someone is still screwing with the ship.

John Lee comes in not long after Pedro leaves and offers to help out, "I'm not a Ship Engineer, but I think I can help back here. I'm certified on grav craft and the mechanical, electronic and gravitic maintenance and repair should be mostly the same whether on a ship, a boat, or an air/raft. Don't have a clue about Jump Drives or some of the stuff that goes on in a Maneuver Drive, but I know how to take orders and follow instructions."

"See the thing is, I'm very underemployed during Jump, just need to make sure the small grav craft we have are in good shape and that takes." John Lee considers, "Oh, four hours or so and I've already finished that for this jump, so I am completely at your service."

[Eris]

Sigrun settles into the pilot's command couch and gives a satisfied smile. She always enjoyed flying space ships and even just taking a watch in jump was still good. However, on this ship she wasn't really employed as a pilot and so Sigrun spoke softly into her shipboard comm and began to hunt "Hei, Connie show me all of the internal sensor data from the crew quarters during and after our last meal. I am specifically interested in transient events in the data and personnel movement in the vicinity of Chandra's stateroom. Extend the timeline back two days and show me events and changes".

OOC: Connie considers all of the crew to be her Captain because she was ordered to do so

"Co-Captain, I am still under orders not to record sensor data from inside staterooms and certain other locations." replies the ship, "So, I can not comply with all of your order. I will provide data on personnel movement in public areas such as corridors, the galley, lounge and working spaces."

"I am unsure how to respond to conflicting orders from my Captain. One possibility is to accept all commands from my Captain in the order given, but running internal tests on algorithms to do so shows a serious probability of logic conflicts that would require shut downs and reboots. A second set of algorithms I have simulated is to require a majority of Captains to make the same command before performing the actions ordered, but tests of this lead very quickly to situations where response times would exceed safety requirements. The third set of algorithms would be to create a hierarchy of responses based upon which singular entity gave the order."

"My Ship Safety programming shows that current state is unstable and I require programming from the Captain to prevent probable system failure at some unknown future date."


OOC: However, Connie does provide all the available data and after review you find no one entered Chandra's quarters but Chandra prior to his death was discovered. Also there is nothing suspicious found in any public spaces that might be connected to Chandra's death.

[Eris]

Carlos says, over the comm in a closed channel, "Just do the best you can, Chief. Might want to offload the minor but necessary stuff onto a list for us to handle best as we can, and when we finish a job, we mark it and email you to look over. Don't overstress it. And feel free to consult with Connie herself about it. She's pretty damned sharp."

Emily will start working more with Connie to determine what she can do and how that differs from what she's used to. Once she knows, she'll start using Connie to help her keep an eye on things and point out things that seem off.

OOC: Terry isn't sure how Connie differs from normal computers in this universe and I need to make sure I have a firmer grasp of what's happening then he does before he get's more detailed.

OOC: Connie is, at least, semi-sentiment and not only can reply to Emily conversationally, she can make suggestions and can take actions on her own in some cases. When you order her to run system checks, she will do so and attempt to adjust settings to bring systems to nominal state without direct intervention on the Engineer's part. Emily finds that in many cases all she has to do is supervise and make final adjustments while Connie performs much of the actual work internally.

One potential problem, though, is that while Connie will make adjustments on her own these *could* require her to make changes that could potentially be dangerous over the long run...like overriding the limits on sub-systems to balance the entire system. This could keep things functioning nominally for awhile, then lead to complete failure when one or more sub-system failed. At this point, Connie is not always bringing these "tweaks" to the Engineer's attention.


As Emily digs into things, she discovers that some of the changes Connie made have been overridden by Chandra, then changed again by Connie, only to be altered again by herself...then changed back by Connie. Connie's changes have always been accurate and generally as good as any Emily could have made, but the parts that made up the changes were different. It is clear, some sub-systems are running outside nominal ranges even while the entire system is currently perfectly balanced in the nominal range.

Emily remembers studying about ships in the Imperial Navy that had programming set like this. She also knows this programming has fallen out of favor and has been replaced across the Navy with "notification prior to change" programming. It's more work on the Engineers and requires more staff to do it this way, but is considered more safe. There are situations, especially in combat, where "change without intervention" makes sense because a ship can keep itself working when Engineering staff is depleted or do things more quickly than Engineers ever could. However, in most situations "change without intervention" was deemed too dangerous.

If Emily checks back at the personnel rosters on Connie Malone she will discover the ship ran with no qualified Engineer listed for long periods of time. There was never more than 1 Engineer listed on the the personnel rosters until she joined the crew where Chandra Gupta and she were both specifically listed as Engineers.

[Tiglath]

Sigrun seethes with impatience while Connie patiently and carefully explains matters and finally snaps "Connie, þegja!"*

Recovering her composure she finds herself explaining "Connie you are a fine and most excellent ship spirit but one of my comrades may have been murdered and now is not the time for debate! I need to know if someone was responsible and, if so, to take them and show them to the Void Dragon until they confess it. Now, listen Connie I am Sigrun Volsung and this matter may foreshadow the doom of us all. I invoke a security protocol Codeword: Gjallarhorn. Now please supply the data I wish on communal ship's areas only".

Given Connie's eventual cooperation Sigrun sets her mind to further considerations.

(OOC: * Old Norse translation service: þegja = shut up!

Codeword: Gjallarhorn (Connie's full cooperation regarding a matter of "impending doom"). This is just one of a sub menu of "security protocols" Sigrun agreed with Pedro's authority and then finessed with Connie.

Of course, the one everyone's waiting for is Codeword: Ragnarök

This protocol almost defines terms like "overriding" and "dangerous" )

[Tiglath]

If Emily checks back at the personnel rosters on Connie Malone she will discover the ship ran with no qualified Engineer listed for long periods of time. There was never more than 1 Engineer listed on the the personnel rosters until she joined the crew where Chandra Gupta and she were both specifically listed as Engineers.

"You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision".

or put another way

"I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that".

[bruce.desertrat]

OOC: Connie considers all of the crew to be her Captain because she was ordered to do so

"Co-Captain, I am still under orders not to record sensor data from inside staterooms and certain other locations." replies the ship, "So, I can not comply with all of your order. I will provide data on personnel movement in public areas such as corridors, the galley, lounge and working spaces."

"I am unsure how to respond to conflicting orders from my Captain. One possibility is to accept all commands from my Captain in the order given, but running internal tests on algorithms to do so shows a serious probability of logic conflicts that would require shut downs and reboots. A second set of algorithms I have simulated is to require a majority of Captains to make the same command before performing the actions ordered, but tests of this lead very quickly to situations where response times would exceed safety requirements. The third set of algorithms would be to create a hierarchy of responses based upon which singular entity gave the order."

"My Ship Safety programming shows that current state is unstable and I require programming from the Captain to prevent probable system failure at some unknown future date."

Ok, ok, this is starting to resmemble work, as in the 9-5 real world work. like managing Office365 admin roles (which make the Minotaur's Labyrinth look like a kid's restaurant placemat maze). Also my inner HIPAA Privacy Officer (yes, one of my 500-hats-of-bartholomew-cubbins I have on the rack at work ) may have reacted like that in restricting 'personally identifiable health data' to Zaki...which I think is the conflicting orders Connie is talking about? I asked her to monitor private spaces, and did not specify recording as well?

So everyone on board is a domain admin, and conflicting commands from them will cause bluescreens. So Connie had to be set up with roles for each of us in order to prevent conflicting orders? Is this correct?

[Keven]

OOC: Connie considers all of the crew to be her Captain because she was ordered to do so

"Co-Captain, I am still under orders not to record sensor data from inside staterooms and certain other locations." replies the ship, "So, I can not comply with all of your order. I will provide data on personnel movement in public areas such as corridors, the galley, lounge and working spaces."

"I am unsure how to respond to conflicting orders from my Captain. One possibility is to accept all commands from my Captain in the order given, but running internal tests on algorithms to do so shows a serious probability of logic conflicts that would require shut downs and reboots. A second set of algorithms I have simulated is to require a majority of Captains to make the same command before performing the actions ordered, but tests of this lead very quickly to situations where response times would exceed safety requirements. The third set of algorithms would be to create a hierarchy of responses based upon which singular entity gave the order."

"My Ship Safety programming shows that current state is unstable and I require programming from the Captain to prevent probable system failure at some unknown future date."

Ok, ok, this is starting to resmemble work, as in the 9-5 real world work. like managing Office365 admin roles (which make the Minotaur's Labyrinth look like a kid's restaurant placemat maze). Also my inner HIPAA Privacy Officer (yes, one of my 500-hats-of-bartholomew-cubbins I have on the rack at work ) may have reacted like that in restricting 'personally identifiable health data' to Zaki...which I think is the conflicting orders Connie is talking about? I asked her to monitor private spaces, and did not specify recording as well?

So everyone on board is a domain admin, and conflicting commands from them will cause bluescreens. So Connie had to be set up with roles for each of us in order to prevent conflicting orders? Is this correct?

This is weird. I thought we made ONE captain (Pedro) and logged it that way, along with ONE XO (Carlos)

[Eris]

OOC: Connie considers all of the crew to be her Captain because she was ordered to do so

"Co-Captain, I am still under orders not to record sensor data from inside staterooms and certain other locations." replies the ship, "So, I can not comply with all of your order. I will provide data on personnel movement in public areas such as corridors, the galley, lounge and working spaces."

"I am unsure how to respond to conflicting orders from my Captain. One possibility is to accept all commands from my Captain in the order given, but running internal tests on algorithms to do so shows a serious probability of logic conflicts that would require shut downs and reboots. A second set of algorithms I have simulated is to require a majority of Captains to make the same command before performing the actions ordered, but tests of this lead very quickly to situations where response times would exceed safety requirements. The third set of algorithms would be to create a hierarchy of responses based upon which singular entity gave the order."

"My Ship Safety programming shows that current state is unstable and I require programming from the Captain to prevent probable system failure at some unknown future date."

Ok, ok, this is starting to resmemble work, as in the 9-5 real world work. like managing Office365 admin roles (which make the Minotaur's Labyrinth look like a kid's restaurant placemat maze). Also my inner HIPAA Privacy Officer (yes, one of my 500-hats-of-bartholomew-cubbins I have on the rack at work ) may have reacted like that in restricting 'personally identifiable health data' to Zaki...which I think is the conflicting orders Connie is talking about? I asked her to monitor private spaces, and did not specify recording as well?

As my sister says, "HIPAA HIPAA HIPAA!" to which I reply "FERPA, FERPA, FERPA!" She deals with the former all the time and I dealt with both until I retired. Now I just cover my ears when I hear either.

As for Connie, that's about the size of it. You ordered her to begin monitoring private spaces, which she did, but you didn't order her to record, so she didn't. And Sigrun wants access to data from the time before you ordered her to begin monitoring private spaces, so that simply doesn't exist.

So everyone on board is a domain admin, and conflicting commands from them will cause bluescreens. So Connie had to be set up with roles for each of us in order to prevent conflicting orders? Is this correct?

That is also about the size of it. Connie will try to accommodate all the orders from her co-captains and isn't clear on how she can accomplish that. Accepting the most recent order on any topic or accepting an order when a majority of co-captains gives it are the two alternative algorithms she can perform giving her programming...but sees flaws in both. Her suggestion is for you to set up rules based on roles to prevent conflicting orders. The good thing about an RPG, unlike a real computer, is you can say you did that and not go through the sheer hell of actually having to do it for real...more or less.

[joertexas]

That is also about the size of it. Connie will try to accommodate all the orders from her co-captains and isn't clear on how she can accomplish that. Accepting the most recent order on any topic or accepting an order when a majority of co-captains gives it are the two alternative algorithms she can perform giving her programming...but sees flaws in both. Her suggestion is for you to set up rules based on roles to prevent conflicting orders. The good thing about an RPG, unlike a real computer, is you can say you did that and not go through the sheer hell of actually having to do it for real...more or less.

OOG: Okay, so Pedro is the Captain, Carlos is the First Officer (2nd in command), Emily is the Chief Engineer (3rd in command), Zaki is the Medical Officer (4th in command), and Sigrun is the Security Officer (5th in command). Is this correct?

[bruce.desertrat]

That is also about the size of it. Connie will try to accommodate all the orders from her co-captains and isn't clear on how she can accomplish that. Accepting the most recent order on any topic or accepting an order when a majority of co-captains gives it are the two alternative algorithms she can perform giving her programming...but sees flaws in both. Her suggestion is for you to set up rules based on roles to prevent conflicting orders. The good thing about an RPG, unlike a real computer, is you can say you did that and not go through the sheer hell of actually having to do it for real...more or less.

OOG: Okay, so Pedro is the Captain, Carlos is the First Officer (2nd in command), Emily is the Chief Engineer (3rd in command), Zaki is the Medical Officer (4th in command), and Sigrun is the Security Officer (5th in command). Is this correct?

That's what Pedro is going to tell Connie, But he or rather Bruce wants to think about it a bit to make sure this doesn't bite us on the ass...if Pedro is incapacitated who can tell Connie they're in charge? Can they say "sudo Make me Captain, Connie"???


A long time ago in a F2F D&D game we came upon a Golem in a dungeon. Our GM (inexplicably, since he was an IBM systems programmer at that point, and was playing with folks who also programmed computers for fun or profit) said 'The Golem has memory slots to remember 8 commands and only 8 commands' without specifying that the slots were fixed. He realized his error INSTANTLY when several of us , pretty much simultaneously, said "The first command is FORGET COMMAND [COMMAND NAME];' (and yes, you could probably have heard the capitalization and punctuation)

Also, Sigrun might dispute the above ordering...

[bruce.desertrat]

And just how AI IS Connie? Are we in Three Laws territory here or what?

[Eris]

And just how AI IS Connie? Are we in Three Laws territory here or what?

This one I'll answer. Close, but not officially and it'll take some questioning and thinking to figure this out. This is the priority you *think* is in effect:

1. Obey commands from Captain.
2. Protect the ship
3. Obey commands from crew that are listed on Official Roster, that don't conflict with 1 or 2
4. Protect passengers that are listed on Passenger Manifest
5. Obey commands from passengers listed on Passenger Manifest, that don't conflict with 1, 2, 3 or 4

[Tiglath]

Also, Sigrun might dispute the above ordering...

(OOC: I think this is a bridge we've already crossed (or is that burned? ) with Sigrun's "security protocols" which give her a Captain authorised "override" level of command if she (not Connie) declares it necessary.

Equally in matters medical Zaki would outrank everybody.

If the "whistles and bells" of AI actually make the ship more difficult to use effectively then we've reached the point where we need to start pulling fuses...)

[joertexas]

Also, Sigrun might dispute the above ordering...

(OOC: I think this is a bridge we've already crossed (or is that burned? ) with Sigrun's "security protocols" which give her a Captain authorised "override" level of command if she (not Connie) declares it necessary.

Equally in matters medical Zaki would outrank everybody.

If the "whistles and bells" of AI actually make the ship more difficult to use effectively then we've reached the point where we need to start pulling fuses...)

True, but Connie should be clear on the command structure: Pedro, Carlos, Emily, Zaki (except on medical issues affecting the people above her), and Sigrun (who has a limited override in so-far-undefined circumstances), then the NPC crew, and then anyone else left on the ship if the crew is all dead or AWOL. Is this correct?

[bruce.desertrat]

Also, Sigrun might dispute the above ordering...

(OOC: I think this is a bridge we've already crossed (or is that burned? ) with Sigrun's "security protocols" which give her a Captain authorised "override" level of command if she (not Connie) declares it necessary.

Equally in matters medical Zaki would outrank everybody.

If the "whistles and bells" of AI actually make the ship more difficult to use effectively then we've reached the point where we need to start pulling fuses...)

True, but Connie should be clear on the command structure: Pedro, Carlos, Emily, Zaki (except on medical issues affecting the people above her), and Sigrun (who has a limited override in so-far-undefined circumstances), then the NPC crew, and then anyone else left on the ship if the crew is all dead or AWOL. Is this correct?

I should have a properly organized structure by sometime tomorrow.

Briefly: The command hierarchy as so far described is the formal rights basis, with any two of the command hierarchy can override a higher level with a formal override code, a-la Star Trek.

I'm going to think about it for a bit though, so I don't tie us into a bad corner case. For example Carlos outranks Sigrun, but she's the only other qualified pilot and may have to over-ride his navigation. Etc. Sigh. See 'Work. O365 roles, playing 'Accountants and Actuaries'

Just don't steal my strawberries!

[bruce.desertrat]

This is my proposed systems command structure, to keep Connie from going catatonic. (blue screens are BAD when the computer is running the ship. https://gcn.com/articles/1998/07/13/sof ... water.aspx )

It has three levels of permissions and authority 1 (Captain), 2 (XO), 3 (everyone else).

There's a succession of command, (in cases of death, incapacitation or absence ) and a bit we'll need to discuss as crew and owners about, like monitoring versus privacy, etc. I kind of arbitrarily chose the line of succession, but if both Pedro and Carlos are out of action it'll likely be due to enemy actions, and Sigrun DOES have command experience.

Of necessity some of the roles overlap (like what we've run into, with Sigrun and Zaki ) But in general, if the following people issue orders within their roles, Connie should obey them over anyone else, barring a higher command role issuing a conflicting command, or a properly executed command override.

Level Name Main role Succession of Command

1) Pedro Captain - All overrides, Domain Admin - 0

2) Carlos XO, Navigator 2nd in command - Bridge, main systems admin (can sudo most thing normally ?) - 1

3) Emily Chief Engineer - full control of engineering roles - 3
3) Sigrun Security Officer - full control of security roles - 2
3) Zaki Medical Officer - full control of medical and life support roles. - 4

Overrides:

If level 2 and one of Level 3 concur can override commands by 1 with command override passwords logged. (a la Star Trek 'Command override Alpha Delta 23456 Zed' kinda stuff.

If all three Level 3 concur, can override commands by 1 or 2 with command override passwords logged.

Things to work on, think about

Needed updates, clarification for Connie: logging and alerting of automated adjustments that exceed limits, monitoring v recording, disaster recovery plan, combat rules.

Command states: Ground, Normal space, jump space, combat, energency do they all require different permissions structures. (?)

Crew decisions: Surveillance, Monitoring v Privacy. Role overlap.

Chime in if you think there's something I missed.

[joertexas]

Chime in if you think there's something I missed.[/ooc]

Sounds good to me.

[Tiglath]

Our command structure as above seems sound.

From my (ex cop) perspective I can add little re computers save experience of the "low tech edge" of government issue gear.

However, on surveillance & legislation matters I'm on firmer ground. Here the rule of thumb (assuming that maps onto the Imperial model) is that private areas and personal data are off limits (requiring exceptional circumstances for surveillance) but communal areas are fair game for continual recorded surveillance.

So we have a breach of "rights" by monitoring and collecting our medical data mitigated/excused by the current "present danger" of sudden death by cause unknown.

Sigrun's request for stored footage of the communal area accessing Chandra's room was based on the precedent of Connie providing recorded historic surveillance of the ship interior which was used to discover who placed the bomb on board. (Perhaps Connie did this because she was parked up empty with the alarm set?)

However, I assumed we would have continued with that level of security given our ongoing fear of sabotage and/or hijacking attempts against the ship.

[bruce.desertrat]

From my (ex cop) perspective I can add little re computers save experience of the "low tech edge" of government issue gear.

However, on surveillance & legislation matters I'm on firmer ground. Here the rule of thumb (assuming that maps onto the Imperial model) is that private areas and personal data are off limits (requiring exceptional circumstances for surveillance) but communal areas are fair game for continual recorded surveillance.

So we have a breach of "rights" by monitoring and collecting our medical data mitigated/excused by the current "present danger" of sudden death by cause unknown.

Sigrun's request for stored footage of the communal area accessing Chandra's room was based on the precedent of Connie providing recorded historic surveillance of the ship interior which was used to discover who placed the bomb on board. (Perhaps Connie did this because she was parked up empty with the alarm set?)

However, I assumed we would have continued with that level of security given our ongoing fear of sabotage and/or hijacking attempts against the ship.

Well, legislation doesn't really enter into it as this is private property, and a ship under way which makes Pedro (insert villanous "Bwahahahaha!" laugh ) the absolute dictator On the other hand we're all 'Owners Aboard' the ship so technically collectively we outrank the captain.

But yeah, I also thought that surveillance of the common areas would continue so long as we're a target for the other side.

I think monitor/but do not record is a fair compromise for privacy for health and safety reasons.

Alternately a rolling 2-hour recording window, a la aircraft black boxes. Health data would be granted to Medical officer, ingress/egress to Security Officer.