Loot and Treasure 2
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
Seadu grunts. 'I concur, bargaining with a possessive sword never ends well in the stories. A prior show of good faith would have been required for me to consider any offers, but I think I would need a rather more significant demonstration of gratitude and amiable intent before I put my own faith in your enterprise.'
DM: So, to clarify, Seadu still gets an even split of experience despite being on his own most during most of the actual dungeon crawl? I'm only asking because I assumed his staying to guard the animals and investigating the strange excavation meant that he'd lose out on whatever the party got in the tomb.
Regarding Treasure: I can actually see the sense in both points of view. Most campaigns I've played in divvied up all loot cooperatively at the very end, but they were also single-party games, and there was rarely much question on who got what (e.g., the magic-user items obviously go to the party's one magic-user). This sandbox is more like a MUD/MMO in its structure, so it's not surprising that some people would be inclined to treat their PCs with the same kind of individualism when it comes to finding treasure. After all, we're expected to be (generally) on the same side, but not necessarily on the same 'team'.
Still, it seems like a positive thing to be discussing in detail. Perhaps the Bertram Tomb expedition will become a precedent for how future expeditions are carried out: if Seadu leads any expeditions, he might actually draft up a short parchment with the other characters to make sure everyone agrees to where we're going, what we're doing, and how we handle the loot.
DM: So, to clarify, Seadu still gets an even split of experience despite being on his own most during most of the actual dungeon crawl? I'm only asking because I assumed his staying to guard the animals and investigating the strange excavation meant that he'd lose out on whatever the party got in the tomb.
Regarding Treasure: I can actually see the sense in both points of view. Most campaigns I've played in divvied up all loot cooperatively at the very end, but they were also single-party games, and there was rarely much question on who got what (e.g., the magic-user items obviously go to the party's one magic-user). This sandbox is more like a MUD/MMO in its structure, so it's not surprising that some people would be inclined to treat their PCs with the same kind of individualism when it comes to finding treasure. After all, we're expected to be (generally) on the same side, but not necessarily on the same 'team'.
Still, it seems like a positive thing to be discussing in detail. Perhaps the Bertram Tomb expedition will become a precedent for how future expeditions are carried out: if Seadu leads any expeditions, he might actually draft up a short parchment with the other characters to make sure everyone agrees to where we're going, what we're doing, and how we handle the loot.
- hedgeknight
- Rider of Rohan
- Posts: 8730
- Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 11:03 am
- Location: NC
- Contact:
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
It extends as far as the group allows it to go. If there indeed are 5 magic items and 1 player decides he/she wants them all, then you deal with that then and there. You either let it go or you come up with a better way of distribution. And yes, if you only find one item and someone claims it, it's theirs...unless they wish to give it away. How does that not make sense?How far does this extend?
If the group finds 5 items and 1 dude stuffs them all in his pants, do they belong to him, no questions asked?
How about non-magic? If the group finds a jewel-studded crown and 1 dude puts it on, is it his, no questions asked, even if that's the only loot they find?
We're never sure how much loot there will be...some people could get little or none. It's called D&D. You've never been on a short adventure and come "home" with nothing but some coins? Every time you raid an Orc lair you're expecting to find Orcrist and Glamdring in the same hoard, along with three suits of armor, and a magical staff for the wizard? C'mon man.I find it equally crazy to divvy loot in the middle of an adventure, especially when we aren't even sure how much their is (or will be) to divide.
Now, you're just reaching. Same as above, it someone else wants the sword, whenever they log on and read through the posts, it can be decided then. To me it's simple, but that's the way I've always gamed whether around the table or online.Which leads to another point...doesn't allowing claims like this benefit whoever posts first? The group uncovers a treasure, the first guy to pipe up and say "Pointy the Elf picks up the ancient sword and belts it on, taking a few swipes with it" has claim, just because he logged on an hour before anyone else?
But, I'm over this conversation about dividing loot. I really don't give a rat's ass how we do it. Just as long as it's made clear at the beginning of the adventure. Maybe it was...maybe I missed it; if so, that's on me and I apologize for creating all this unnecessary dialogue. To that end...
Krysta puts the scrollcase with the remaining scrolls back on the table.
"There are clerical spells of Detect Magic, Speak with Animals (two of those), and Striking. If anyone should want them, here they are."
(There used to be a scroll of Light too, but I think she used it against the gnolls...right?)
Krysta then turns to Bromric (or whatever he is now) and says, "I won't follow you anywhere, nor support your nefarious plans. As a servant of the Lord of Light, I don't side with demons."
Winter is coming...
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
hedgeknight wrote:And yes, if you only find one item and someone claims it, it's theirs...unless they wish to give it away. How does that not make sense?
It doesn't make sense (to me) because I've always done even distribution among the group, and 1 guy gets everything and everyone else nothing strikes me completely uneven. *shrug*
hedgeknight wrote:I find it equally crazy to divvy loot in the middle of an adventure, especially when we aren't even sure how much their is (or will be) to divide.
We're never sure how much loot there will be...some people could get little or none. It's called D&D. You've never been on a short adventure and come "home" with nothing but some coins? Every time you raid an Orc lair you're expecting to find Orcrist and Glamdring in the same hoard, along with three suits of armor, and a magical staff for the wizard? C'mon man.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I don't expect to always find awesome stuff totally suited to everyone, but I expected that whether we find an huge dwarven hoard or a small pouch of silver pieces, the group will attempt to share out what's found as evenly as possible. If we come home with nothing but coins, we divide 'em up. If we find only one item, we sell it and divide the proceeds. If it's absolutely impossible to sell, we dice for it and highest guy wins, or everybody bids out of their own pocket for it and high bid wins. Or something else.
I've seen adventures where everybody got lots (this adventure), and some where everybody got little or none (several of Rhodri's trips)...I haven't seen any where some people got lots and others got little or none, and I'd like to avoid that latter case.
But, I'm over this conversation about dividing loot. I really don't give a rat's ass how we do it. Just as long as it's made clear at the beginning of the adventure. Maybe it was...maybe I missed it; if so, that's on me and I apologize for creating all this unnecessary dialogue. To that end...
No, I'll agree it wasn't made clear at the beginning (of this or any other expedition, as far as I can tell), and that's where the whole thing is coming from...different expectations, that were never made fully clear. I'll own my part of that, and I apologize for causing a ruckus. But better to have it out and discuss the matter than let it just keep fostering future misunderstandings.
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
FWIW, I like this divvy (for obvious reasons), but I'd say that Bromric should get stuck with the demon sword. We can't really give it to anyone else, so it's effectively out of the loot pile. The dragon shield should go into the pot for other people to select if they want. Bromric would still get a cash share. Also, I haven't heard anyone argue that Krysta shouldn't get the scroll.Spartakos wrote:Preliminary divvy, if people like the stuff they grabbed:
-Hammer for Ulf
-Dagger for Constance
-Lion Shield OR Amber for Martin
-Dragon Shield OR Demon Sword for Bromric
-Sword OR Lance for Bertram
-Dragon helm for Mokatah
-Ring and possibly Boots up for grabs
-Galen, Krysta, Seadu, and Abi need to pick
If anyone doesn't like the divvy suggested above, and the problem can't be solved by talking through a change, I'd suggest bidding on any items multiple people want. It would be a silent, sealed bid, second-price auction (whoever makes the high bid pays the amount of the second-highest bid). To prevent richer characters from automatically getting what they want, I'd suggest capping the amount that could be bid at the value of our cash share (423.15 each, or we could make it an even 400 cap). "Dibs" settles ties, except when two or more people bid the max on an item. In that case, the winner would be decided by a random draw in which "dibs" gets an extra share. A player could only claim "dibs" on one item. If no one has dibs on an item, use random draw to settle who gets it. The money paid for the item is split among all other PCs in the loot distribution pool.
For example: Suppose Mokotah and, say, Seadu both want the dragon helm. They'd send sealed bids to Keehnelf. If they submitted the same bid for less than 400, Mokatah would get it because he's the one who put it on first. If they both submitted bids for 400, the winner would be randomly determined with Mokatah getting an extra share (e.g., [1d3], 1-2=Mokatah, 3=Seadu). By putting "dibs" on the helm, Mokatah could not claim a "dibs" advantage on the broken crossbow bolt.
The method above gives an advantage to players who are bold enough to try items out without going to a full-on "grabbies first" method. It also ensures that the person who really wants an item (and, probably, is most able to use it, since utility==value, at least in theory) gets it over someone who is only sort of interested in it.
BTW, here's another recap of the item list:
Coin
487 gold pieces
112 platinum pieces
Gems
7 square cut emeralds and diamonds (100gp value each - 700gp total)
12 small gems (25gp value each - 300gp total)
A diamond the size of a child's fist (1,000gp value)
Jewelry & Other Fancy Stuff (Sell)
small silver skull pin (25gp value)
A gem-encrusted ornate short sword (125gp value)
1 Platinum tankard (100gp value)
A silver coffer (75gp value)
Other Items to Sell
5 longbows
1 suit damaged splint mail
1 suit chainmail
1 suit studded leather
2 sturdy shortswords
1 shield
A platinum holy symbol in the shape of a hammer crossed by two thunderbolts (60 value)
A steel scroll case with a dwarven map
Total gp value: 4231.5
"Major" Magic Items [Currently held by...]
A serrated +2 long sword with issues [Bromric, sort of]
A clenched-fist +1 broadsword of uncanny momentum [Bertram]
A lightning-charged +2 throwing hammer [Ulf]
A quick and lightweight +1 lance [Bertram]
A long, narrow-bladed +1 dagger with a greenish cast [Constance]
A +1 shield with the image of a coiled dragon [Bromric]
A +1 shield with a lion's head relief [Martin]
A lightweight dragon's-maw full helm [Mokatoh]
A thick gold ring with elvish writing that exudes a peaceful aura
"Minor" Magic Items
A pair of thick ornate gem-studded metal bracers (not magic, but -1 AC) (1,000 - 5,000 gp)
A bone scroll case with Cleric Spells (Light, Detect Magic, Speak With Animals x2, Striking) [Krysta]
A broken crossbow bolt [Mokatoh]
Damaged Briar Boots
A small glass vial full of a congealed green substance
A mithril knife
- hedgeknight
- Rider of Rohan
- Posts: 8730
- Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 11:03 am
- Location: NC
- Contact:
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
I agree completely. And I'm not angry or anything like that, nor do I mind to throw all my claimed items back into the pot...as long as that is what we agree to at the set of the adventure. Otherwise...Spartakos wrote:No, I'll agree it wasn't made clear at the beginning (of this or any other expedition, as far as I can tell), and that's where the whole thing is coming from...different expectations, that were never made fully clear. I'll own my part of that, and I apologize for causing a ruckus. But better to have it out and discuss the matter than let it just keep fostering future misunderstandings.[/color]
So...can we move on from here? Going forward, we'll make a plan for loot and other goodies...cool?
Winter is coming...
- hedgeknight
- Rider of Rohan
- Posts: 8730
- Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 11:03 am
- Location: NC
- Contact:
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
Zhym wrote:FWIW, I like this divvy (for obvious reasons), but I'd say that Bromric should get stuck with the demon sword. We can't really give it to anyone else, so it's effectively out of the loot pile. The dragon shield should go into the pot for other people to select if they want. Bromric would still get a cash share. Also, I haven't heard anyone argue that Krysta shouldn't get the scroll.Spartakos wrote:Preliminary divvy, if people like the stuff they grabbed:
-Hammer for Ulf
-Dagger for Constance
-Lion Shield OR Amber for Martin
-Dragon Shield OR Demon Sword for Bromric
-Sword OR Lance for Bertram
-Dragon helm for Mokatah
-Ring and possibly Boots up for grabs
-Galen, Krysta, Seadu, and Abi need to pick
If anyone doesn't like the divvy suggested above, and the problem can't be solved by talking through a change, I'd suggest bidding on any items multiple people want. It would be a silent, sealed bid, second-price auction (whoever makes the high bid pays the amount of the second-highest bid). To prevent richer characters from automatically getting what they want, I'd suggest capping the amount that could be bid at the value of our cash share (423.15 each, or we could make it an even 400 cap). "Dibs" settles ties, except when two or more people bid the max on an item. In that case, the winner would be decided by a random draw in which "dibs" gets an extra share. A player could only claim "dibs" on one item. If no one has dibs on an item, use random draw to settle who gets it. The money paid for the item is split among all other PCs in the loot distribution pool.
For example: Suppose Mokotah and, say, Seadu both want the dragon helm. They'd send sealed bids to Keehnelf. If they submitted the same bid for less than 400, Mokatah would get it because he's the one who put it on first. If they both submitted bids for 400, the winner would be randomly determined with Mokatah getting an extra share (e.g., [1d3], 1-2=Mokatah, 3=Seadu). By putting "dibs" on the helm, Mokatah could not claim a "dibs" advantage on the broken crossbow bolt.
The method above gives an advantage to players who are bold enough to try items out without going to a full-on "grabbies first" method. It also ensures that the person who really wants an item (and, probably, is most able to use it, since utility==value, at least in theory) gets it over someone who is only sort of interested in it.
BTW, here's another recap of the item list:
Coin
487 gold pieces
112 platinum pieces
Gems
7 square cut emeralds and diamonds (100gp value each - 700gp total)
12 small gems (25gp value each - 300gp total)
A diamond the size of a child's fist (1,000gp value)
Jewelry & Other Fancy Stuff (Sell)
small silver skull pin (25gp value)
A gem-encrusted ornate short sword (125gp value)
1 Platinum tankard (100gp value)
A silver coffer (75gp value)
Other Items to Sell
5 longbows
1 suit damaged splint mail
1 suit chainmail
1 suit studded leather
2 sturdy shortswords
1 shield
A platinum holy symbol in the shape of a hammer crossed by two thunderbolts (60 value)
A steel scroll case with a dwarven map
Total gp value: 4231.5
"Major" Magic Items [Currently held by...]
A serrated +2 long sword with issues [Bromric, sort of]
A clenched-fist +1 broadsword of uncanny momentum [Bertram]
A lightning-charged +2 throwing hammer [Ulf]
A quick and lightweight +1 lance [Bertram]
A long, narrow-bladed +1 dagger with a greenish cast [Constance]
A +1 shield with the image of a coiled dragon [Bromric]
A +1 shield with a lion's head relief [Martin]
A lightweight dragon's-maw full helm [Mokatoh]
A thick gold ring with elvish writing that exudes a peaceful aura
"Minor" Magic Items
A pair of thick ornate gem-studded metal bracers (not magic, but -1 AC) (1,000 - 5,000 gp)
A bone scroll case with Cleric Spells (Light, Detect Magic, Speak With Animals x2, Striking) [Krysta]
A broken crossbow bolt [Mokatoh]
Damaged Briar Boots
A small glass vial full of a congealed green substance
A mithril knife
Winter is coming...
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
Oh, and that divvy list I quoted should have been edited to read "Lion Shield for Martin." I think we all agree that the amber is a special case.
Also, if the divvy isn't agreeable to everyone, I think this suggestion is an excellent one:
Also, if the divvy isn't agreeable to everyone, I think this suggestion is an excellent one:
Spartakos wrote:I'd suggest people list off the items they'd LIKE to get, in order of preference; we can maybe work some or all of this out just by compromising and being agreeable.
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
Works for me, man. And no hard feelings here either.hedgeknight wrote: I agree completely. And I'm not angry or anything like that, nor do I mind to throw all my claimed items back into the pot...as long as that is what we agree to at the set of the adventure. Otherwise...
So...can we move on from here? Going forward, we'll make a plan for loot and other goodies...cool?
Allowing all prior claims to stand except for doubles, Galen's preferences are the dragon shield 1st, elvish ring 2nd, extra cash if neither is available. I recommend selling the bracers unless someone else wants them in lieu of a magic item.
Need word on the whether the Briar Boots work or not.
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
Briar Boots do not currently work, but Abi indicates that she thinks they could be repaired as the enchantment itself is not broken. It would require probably 200 gold pieces in arcane materials and a wizard with a laboratory (Order of the Skull) to do the repairs.
And yes, Seadu gets a full share of xp regardless of whether he entered the tomb or not. Sharing out of the loot is up to y'all, however.
And yes, Seadu gets a full share of xp regardless of whether he entered the tomb or not. Sharing out of the loot is up to y'all, however.
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
Re: the ring, can we assume we're able to find an elf in town willing to translate the writing on the ring, or do we need to RP that?
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
The only elves in town at this point are Rhodri and Valorei, so it's up to them whether it's simple or more complex.
- hedgeknight
- Rider of Rohan
- Posts: 8730
- Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 11:03 am
- Location: NC
- Contact:
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
Krysta is only interested in her scrolls...as well as her share of coin.
Winter is coming...
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
Just to add two cents... I don't have any IC say, so receive only what you offer. Having his only take being a cursed sword that likely is ending the character (and at the least forcing me to play a different PC for the next adventure) which nobody else will touch anyway is a bit rough. Should I actually get my character back, I would appreciate having at least his non-magical Dwarven knife, if not the shield.I'd say that Bromric should get stuck with the demon sword. We can't really give it to anyone else, so it's effectively out of the loot pile. The dragon shield should go into the pot for other people to select if they want.
"I understand that you mistrust me, but I am without guile in these matters," responds the visitor. "I do not know that you can understand my nature, or where I come from, but I will try to explain in your terms further. All magic has its nature, mine is fueled by Law. I can accomplish amazing things. I cannot, however, do so for my own benefit, nor without an agreement from the recipient... It is not a bribe. Nor am I unwilling to be gracious. It is simply that the magic will not work... It is your agreement that powers the magic I offer you. No more, no less. I need those that will help me escape this painful hell that I exist in by the Dwarven magic and greed. I am willing to give my earnest aid to those that help me."Spartakos wrote:Galen raises one eyebrow. "Could we trust any answer you gave us? If you wish my aid, I'm not looking for bribes; just a straightforward discussion of what you intend, and what plan you have to accomplish it...I can then judge the value and success of the mission on its own merits."Visitor-in-Bromric stands as the others pour out and count the treasure, stroking the hilt of the dark metal sword casually with his thumb. As they stare at the goods before him, he speaks, "I remain willing to help those who will assist me. For example, I could identify the powers of these objects for anyone who swears to accompany me until we reach the thrice-locked chamber."
"Simply telling us without demanding anything in return would go well toward establishing your good faith, though."
" Likewise," he continues, "I can aid a plan better than present one. I laid in a tomb for millennia. The dwarves I knew are gone. Their keep has changed hands likely more than once. I can tell nothing more than you... and as I now confessed, cannot use my magic to aid myself, only to aid you."
"Your ally, Bromric, has told me I can trust you, and I extend you good will based on his earnest request. He has given his word to help me escape this agony. If you wish not to aid me, I will depart and find those that will. As I have said, I offer a great gift - all aid I can offer to access the chamber, and all treasures therein as reward once I depart from this hell."
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
It's still a +2 sword, isn't it? And the "curse" seems to be in effect regardless of what happens to the sword.Marullus wrote:Just to add two cents... I don't have any IC say, so receive only what you offer. Having his only take being a cursed sword that likely is ending the character (and at the least forcing me to play a different PC for the next adventure) which nobody else will touch anyway is a bit rough. Should I actually get my character back, I would appreciate having at least his non-magical Dwarven knife, if not the shield.Zhym wrote: I'd say that Bromric should get stuck with the demon sword. We can't really give it to anyone else, so it's effectively out of the loot pile. The dragon shield should go into the pot for other people to select if they want.
If you actually get your character back, it will be after gaining entrance to the dwarven treasure hoard, right? Bromric can take something from that.
Also, I'd suggest moving the IC discussion of whether anyone is willing to help Demon-in-Bromric to another thread. This thread is scrolling enough with OOC treasure distribution conversations. It'd be easier me, anyway, if we could go somewhere else to RP whether Demon Bromric can convince anyone to help him.
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
Martin is fine with the +1 shield and a share of the coins.
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
True enough... That was my only appeal, because he can't IC participate, anyway. I will accept what he gets.Zhym wrote:If you actually get your character back, it will be after gaining entrance to the dwarven treasure hoard, right? Bromric can take something from that.
It is highly relevant here for now - if five people agree, then all the magic items, full powers, and magic words get revealed. That likely has a major impact on item distribution.Zhym wrote:Also, I'd suggest moving the IC discussion of whether anyone is willing to help Demon-in-Bromric to another thread. This thread is scrolling enough with OOC treasure distribution conversations. It'd be easier me, anyway, if we could go somewhere else to RP whether Demon Bromric can convince anyone to help him.
After that we can move to the tavern for further conversations or deals that people want to make. Until we address the issue of identifying these items (or not) I'd say we stay here.
Of course, if nobody is going with him, it gets real easy.
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
I missed this. Ulf will take the ring to the tavern to see if either elf is willing to translate the writing on the ring.Keehnelf wrote:The only elves in town at this point are Rhodri and Valorei, so it's up to them whether it's simple or more complex.
- Mister-Kent
- Ranger Knight
- Posts: 1941
- Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:17 pm
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
Constance is fine with the Green Destiny dagger and her share of coins -- unless someone else really wants the dagger, then she'll look into the Peace Ring.
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
I think Marullus's point about the Visitor possibly revealing stuff about the loot is relevant; I'd like to know, Galen's just not willing to make a promise to this dude in order to find out.
I'd ask that anybody who chimes in on loot also chime in on whether they're willing to swear to aid The Visitor. So far, Krysta has said a flat no, and Galen is now adding his own refusal...this guy doesn't have a plan, he's just promising to help us help him. Too dicey for me.
Constance, Ulf, Martin...you've chimed in on loot, how about on making a promise to Demon-guy? And everybody else from here on?
If Ulf takes the ring to the tavern, he'll find Rhodri abusing his liver. He looks it over, and says he'll translate in exchange for Ulf's promise to translate a bit of dwarvish, next time he needs it...he also wants to hear Ulf's story (of the last expedition), but is willing to pay for drinks during the telling.
I'd ask that anybody who chimes in on loot also chime in on whether they're willing to swear to aid The Visitor. So far, Krysta has said a flat no, and Galen is now adding his own refusal...this guy doesn't have a plan, he's just promising to help us help him. Too dicey for me.
Constance, Ulf, Martin...you've chimed in on loot, how about on making a promise to Demon-guy? And everybody else from here on?
If Ulf takes the ring to the tavern, he'll find Rhodri abusing his liver. He looks it over, and says he'll translate in exchange for Ulf's promise to translate a bit of dwarvish, next time he needs it...he also wants to hear Ulf's story (of the last expedition), but is willing to pay for drinks during the telling.
Re: Loot and Treasure 2
Ulf agrees to Rhodri's bargain. He'd be happy to translate anything that's in dwarvish. And tell of what happened on the latest expedition.
As for the "Visitor": If Ulf had his way, the demon wearing Bromric's body would be sitting in Vaul's most secure prison cell right now or we'd be looking into ways to exorcise the demon instead of bargaining with it.
As for the "Visitor": If Ulf had his way, the demon wearing Bromric's body would be sitting in Vaul's most secure prison cell right now or we'd be looking into ways to exorcise the demon instead of bargaining with it.