Loot and Treasure 2

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hedgeknight
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#21 Post by hedgeknight »

If you claim an item and use it during the game, it should be yours, no questions asked. If another wants to dice for it, that was the time to do it, not after a character has carried it and used it during the adventure. For them to have to give it up just because someone else wants it is not right, IMO.
For example, Krysta chose the scroll of cleric spells and has used one of the spells off the scroll. It's hers; she ain't giving it up. If someone wanted it, they should have said so when it was discovered and we could have diced for it then.
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#22 Post by Dogma »

I'm fine with divvying up items in what ever manner the grops decides. My one objection is the piece of amber, for the reasons that Keenelf points out.

If its going to be a contentious issue though I'm not going to insist on it. I'd rather we came up with a way to make everyone happy (or at least equally unhappy :D ) and still want to continue playing than to get exactly what I want.
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#23 Post by KingOfCowards »

hedgeknight wrote:If you claim an item and use it during the game, it should be yours, no questions asked. If another wants to dice for it, that was the time to do it, not after a character has carried it and used it during the adventure. For them to have to give it up just because someone else wants it is not right, IMO.
For example, Krysta chose the scroll of cleric spells and has used one of the spells off the scroll. It's hers; she ain't giving it up. If someone wanted it, they should have said so when it was discovered and we could have diced for it then.
I think different players come with different experiences of divvying up magic items. Thus far in my adventures in Keehnelf's game, he have always diced when a dispute came up, no matter who was the first to grab or use an item. For instance Kennit lost the cursed magic sword to evil Numen by dicing in the loot forum. I am fine with whatever measure is chosen for loot distribution, but I think everyone should be on the same page. That being said, I have no problem with Krysta taking nor keeping the scroll, and it would be hard not to have possessed Bromric take the demon sword.
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#24 Post by Keehnelf »

KingOfCowards wrote:For instance Kennit lost the cursed magic sword to evil Numen by dicing in the loot forum.
I'm just glad that all worked out in the end...
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#25 Post by Marullus »

From observing this game so far, distribution of goods seems highly dependent on the IC personalities of those involved. That was my expectation going into it. Bromric grabbed things he would want. Under normal circumstances, trying to pry dwarven treasures from his stubby fingers after having laid claim to them would be difficult. If you really want to try and strip him of them while demon-possessed by them, it is definitely an IC issue. :) From an player-perspective, this particular haul has so many items that distribution shouldn't be too problematic. If there is one item, it is diced for, sure, but we have a pile. I agree that we should begin with people holding what they claimed. We divvy up what is in the center. Then, if someone IC wants to challenge the amount that another IC has, we address it. In any case, I don't think an OOC conversation about apportioning goods currently held IC by others is appropriate.

Visitor-in-Bromric stands as the others pour out and count the treasure, stroking the hilt of the dark metal sword casually with his thumb. As they stare at the goods before him, he speaks, "I remain willing to help those who will assist me. For example, I could identify the powers of these objects for anyone who swears to accompany me until we reach the thrice-locked chamber."
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#26 Post by KingOfCowards »

Sorry, I guess we differ on opinions. I find that conversations ooc tend to expedite matters such as this without dragging them on. It also averts ugly disagreement and inter-party conflict, things I personally feel no need for in my games. But to each their own.
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#27 Post by Starbeard »

Sorry, thought I posted this a while ago, but apparently only saved it as a draft:

To my mind I'd assume that the default schemes would be to pile everything together at the end if we were a single-party campaign, and claim-as-we-go if we're a multi-party sandbox (which is what we are). I imagine that if we were going to have a different or specific looting method, it would have had to be decided as we set out.

That said, I'm happy either way and would happily toss my own found gear back into the pile, although I realize none of it is anywhere near as valuable as some other PC's finds.

Seadu wouldn't mind the ring or boots (in that order) if those are still unclaimed; or if it's decided to part with the map, he'd also like a crack at deciphering and/or copying it with Galen beforehand.

HOWEVER: Seadu spent most of the dungeon time doing his own thing, which I figured barred him from most of the group experience awards, and probably any loot beyond a cash share.
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#28 Post by Keehnelf »

For the sake of not having this conversation stretch on overlong: Bertram, as leader of the expedition, did note during the first thread that his plan was to divide up the loot without regard to what went into individuals' hands during the adventure itself (as Spartakos notes), so as not to dissuade folks from making use of the items. I would say this decision is well within his authority, and when he made the declaration in-thread it was not contested.

This doesn't mean it wasn't overlooked by some or all members of the party; but that doesn't mean it isn't a precedent.

Therefore, in the interest of both OOC efficiency and IC accuracy, Bertram's division by lots/dicing should be the default, and anyone who wants to exempt themselves or items they picked up from this process will need to do so IC and deal with whatever fallout comes from that.
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#29 Post by Zhym »

Hello again from somewhere north of Niagara!

I could do with the discussion taking a little longer. ;) But Ulf is mostly interested in his namesake weapon. Any other negotiations and deliberations will have to wait until Sunday night. :)
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#30 Post by hedgeknight »

Well, to put items a character has chosen IC, back in the divvy pot at adventure's end is crazy as hell. I must have missed that point. I can't even imagine doing this or asking my players to do this. But...whatever.

IF...there are no objections, Krysta will keep the scrolls she claimed and used during the game, along with a small portion of coin.
IF...there ARE objections and someone else wants the remaining scrolls, they can have them, and she will take her share of coin.
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#31 Post by Keehnelf »

hedgeknight wrote:Well, to put items a character has chosen IC, back in the divvy pot at adventure's end is crazy as hell. I must have missed that point. I can't even imagine doing this or asking my players to do this. But...whatever.

IF...there are no objections, Krysta will keep the scrolls she claimed and used during the game, along with a small portion of coin.
IF...there ARE objections and someone else wants the remaining scrolls, they can have them, and she will take her share of coin.
I want to be clear: I'm not asking anybody to do anything. I don't make decisions about how the loot gets distributed--you can look back over the loot threads and early tavern and see that it's just how things have gone in the past.

IC, I think it's a useful conversation to have if expectations are different between the PCs, and may shape who travels with whom in the future if there are sharp differences of opinion, which is totally kosher. OOC, though, I think the precedent to date has been pretty clear at least as far as the Eastern Expeditions have been concerned.
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#32 Post by Marullus »

who wants to exempt themselves or items they picked up from this process will need to do so IC and deal with whatever fallout comes from that.
The visitor-in-Bromric makes no move to relinquish any of the items claimed by Bromric into the pile.
Items claimed by Bromric:
The shield is emblazoned with the image of dragon coiled into an almost perfect circle made of inlaid bronze or copper that reflects the torchlight brightly. Inside the circle-dragon are two crossed axes inlaid with a darker metal with a silvery sheen. the round metal shield, which appears to bear a +1 enchantment, seems to glimmer faintly as he straps it on.

The serrated sword's markings have a confused and chaotic feel, like they were inscribed by a number of different crafters at different points in time. The most organized looking set of inscriptions seems to be a binding of some kind, perhaps fusing a force or power to the blade. The key-rune of the inscription seems to be a proper noun but the letters are wildly unsayable. It reads: 'CZDAXYG'. The other runes and inscriptions appear to be minor wards and enchantments of various kinds.

A utilitarian knife made with a mithril alloy that is light and should never require sharpening.
(Note to Keenhelf - this didn't make your list for value/XP?)
Re-Posting:
Visitor-in-Bromric stands as the others pour out and count the treasure, stroking the hilt of the dark metal sword casually with his thumb. As they stare at the goods before him, he speaks, "I remain willing to help those who will assist me. For example, I could identify the powers of these objects for anyone who swears to accompany me until we reach the thrice-locked chamber."
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#33 Post by Spartakos »

I have a long post, but my computer crapped out on me...I'm on my phone now, I'll post it when I get back from school shopping. :)
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#34 Post by Keehnelf »

Ah, I did forget the knife--but it's not worth a huge amount. Add 10xp each.
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#35 Post by Zhym »

Marullus wrote:The visitor-in-Bromric makes no move to relinquish any of the items claimed by Bromric into the pile.
Well, if we're going to be like *that*... ;)

Ulf made sure to disarm Bromric, which included removing the sword and the knife. If Bromric is in a position to withhold anything from the "pile," it's only the shield. AFAIK, no one has yet returned the sword or the knife to him (although it's obvious no one else will touch the sword. OTOH, we might condition return of the sword on putting the shield in the pile).

Also: way to convince people to work with you. Hoard the treasure, that'll increase trust. :P
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#36 Post by Marullus »

Zhym wrote:Also: way to convince people to work with you. Hoard the treasure, that'll increase trust. :P
I hadn't decided yet his final bargain. I will wait until someone interacts IC... ;)
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#37 Post by Zhym »

I dunno. This is a special case, but I agree with whoever said that treasure distribution causes fewer problems if we keep it OOC.
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#38 Post by Keehnelf »

Yes, Bromric and his visitor had been stripped of weapons until the party decided to handle his condition.
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#39 Post by Marullus »

Zhym wrote:I dunno. This is a special case, but I agree with whoever said that treasure distribution causes fewer problems if we keep it OOC.
okay... No need to force it if ooc is more comfortable. This is only supposed to add fun.

After you all negotiate with the visitor-in-Bromric, he offers to put in Bromric's shield (i.e. all items) and identify all the items as a sign of good will if at least five people will swear to aid him until he enters the thrice-locked room. Any takers?
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Re: Loot and Treasure 2

#40 Post by Spartakos »

OOC:

1.) Apologies to Martin about the amber, I'd agree that's his and not part of the group loot.

2.) DM: Do the Briar Boots work? When Crivit tried them before, they left no tracks. Galen will try them on and see if they do the same...not claiming them, just testing them so we know their value.

3.)
hedgeknight wrote:If you claim an item and use it during the game, it should be yours, no questions asked.
How far does this extend?
If the group finds 5 items and 1 dude stuffs them all in his pants, do they belong to him, no questions asked?
How about non-magic? If the group finds a jewel-studded crown and 1 dude puts it on, is it his, no questions asked, even if that's the only loot they find?
I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm seriously trying to understand how this is supposed to work. For instance, if Galen had wanted that magic hammer, should he have interrupted in mid-search and said so? Do we dice for it on the spot, or is it enough to say "hey, I'd like a shot at that" and we table it until the end? Or is it 'finders keepers' and since Ulf grabbed it and tried it out, no one else gets a chance?
hedgeknight wrote:Well, to put items a character has chosen IC, back in the divvy pot at adventure's end is crazy as hell. I must have missed that point. I can't even imagine doing this or asking my players to do this. But...whatever.
I find it equally crazy to divvy loot in the middle of an adventure, especially when we aren't even sure how much their is (or will be) to divide. It's always been my experience--not just in this campaign, but in all the D&D I've played--that all loot found is group loot, until the adventure's end when we split it up. Heck, that's the way it was on the earlier expedition when Crivit and Quirin got croaked...you were there, Krysta. We found the cloak, staff, and boots; while people carried and even used those, at the end they went back in the pot and we divided things up (well, the boots were lost). Abi had been using the cloak, but Krysta ended up with it, and Abi ended up with the staff (that Galen and Quirin had both had and tried out).

If that's the way everyone wants to do things, okay I guess...but you can bet I'll be hashing this out beforehand next time I go out with a group.

For the record, I have no problem with Krysta taking the scrolls as her share of magic, and getting a full share of coin to boot. There's enough that everybody should be able to get magic and cash.
I really don't have a problem with anybody keeping the items they've claimed (I'd have liked a chance to make a claim, though)...the exception is those who have 2 items when some don't have any. Unfortunately, the ones who have 2 items have mostly weapons, unusable by the 4 who don't have any (clerics and mage).
But I honestly didn't see the earlier actions as "claiming items"; I thought people were testing and trying out items found by the group just to see if they were magical. If that's my misunderstanding, my bad; but if I'd known one could "call dibs", Galen would have brought it up in the tombs.
Which leads to another point...doesn't allowing claims like this benefit whoever posts first? The group uncovers a treasure, the first guy to pipe up and say "Pointy the Elf picks up the ancient sword and belts it on, taking a few swipes with it" has claim, just because he logged on an hour before anyone else?

4.)
Marullus wrote:Under normal circumstances, trying to pry dwarven treasures from his stubby fingers after having laid claim to them would be difficult. If you really want to try and strip him of them while demon-possessed by them, it is definitely an IC issue.
And as Zhym pointed out, we already stripped him of them, IC...I don't see any mention that we gave them back. Treasure division aside, I'm still a bit leery of giving a cursed evil sword back to the possessed dwarf. Galen isn't Rhodri. :)

5.) Does anyone have an issue with the split I described of monetary loot?

6.) Have to say, I find it a bit ironic that the richest treasure find of the entire campaign is the one to produce a real wrangle on division of loot. :)

IC:

Galen is in good spirits when the group returns to town laden with riches, but when it comes time to divide the spoils, he is taken aback by some of his companions laying prior claim to some of the dwarven treasure found in the tomb.
"I have no wish to cause dissension, but I find this strange. In past forays, all the members of the group have shared equally at the journey's end, of all coin and goods recovered. We searched together, fought together, and I expected that all wealth found was taken by the group, to be shared amongst all...not claimed by individuals on the spot." He holds up the dwarven bracers he picked up in the tomb, and has been carrying since. "Should I then consider these mine, with no others having claim on them? I had rather assess the value of the lot together, and share it out as I have done in past journeys." He looks to the others, particularly Krysta, Abi, and Bertram, who he has traveled with before.
Visitor-in-Bromric stands as the others pour out and count the treasure, stroking the hilt of the dark metal sword casually with his thumb. As they stare at the goods before him, he speaks, "I remain willing to help those who will assist me. For example, I could identify the powers of these objects for anyone who swears to accompany me until we reach the thrice-locked chamber."
Galen raises one eyebrow. "Could we trust any answer you gave us? If you wish my aid, I'm not looking for bribes; just a straightforward discussion of what you intend, and what plan you have to accomplish it...I can then judge the value and success of the mission on its own merits."
"Simply telling us without demanding anything in return would go well toward establishing your good faith, though."
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