OOC 2 - More Rambling, Ranting, and Such

[Computer +1]

Hahaha tough call since its really up to your preference how you interpret the roll, either 1=5 or 95-100.

If you hadnt rolled first, how would you of done it?

[hedgeknight]

If I had thought about it before I rolled it, I would say that a roll of 96-100 reflects a 5% chance of a knockout. So...since I didn't declare that, I'm going to let this one slide and go forward from here...assuming the fight continues on.

[Alethan]

If I had thought about it before I rolled it, I would say that a roll of 96-100 reflects a 5% chance of a knockout. So...since I didn't declare that, I'm going to let this one slide and go forward from here...assuming the fight continues on.

Yep, like I said, I always indicate where the roll has to be for the chance of occurrence.

And, yes, I learned it from experience, just like this.

But it was the last time I ever had a problem with it!

[Belkregos]

Kidney punch?! sounds like my kind of game , that's the hedgeknight alright

[AQuebman]

I do believe Oggle is about to get his ass pounded in by this big barbarian considering were having a hand to hand fight and not with steel hehe.

[hedgeknight]

Moved from Bloodcurse thread:

With your initiative roll, you might not get to attack at all, depending upon how Adain rolls for punching. But what I did (and what I would like you to do) is to refer to the 2E rules in the DMG on Punching & Wrestling - trust me, I'm not used to rolling the subdual and non-lethal combat stuff either, but it's really cool to look at and the charts help a lot. In case you need it, here is the link to the online 2E rules > http://www.purpleworm.org/rules/
Click on the Dungeon Masters Guide, then click on Chapter 9: Combat, then on Attacking Without Killing. You can read through that section, but you just primarily need to look at Table 43: Punching & Wrestling Results. So, using your attack above - "16" - that is a hit. So then you would roll on the Table 43 and get a result - roll a d20. For example, let's say your roll a "14" - on Table 43 that would be an Uppercut with damage being 1 + Strength bonus, and with an 8% chance of a knock out. See how easy that works?
So...if you will, go ahead and roll on Table 43 for your attack above and give me the results...not sure what Adain's roll is going to be yet - I'm just firing this off as I have a few minutes at lunch.

OOC: I thought my attack roll was the same as that roll so I would get a glancing blow with a 16 and then i'd roll percentiles on the KO?

If the attack roll is successful, consult Table 43 to find the result of the attack: Cross-index the character's modified attack roll with the proper attack form. If, for example, a character successfully punched with an 18, the result would be a rabbit punch. If he rolled an 18 on a successful wrestling attempt, the result would be a kick. Punching and wrestling attacks can succeed on attack rolls of 1 or less, exceptions to the general rule.

Okay, well maybe I'm reading it wrong. I initially thought the same thing as you fellers, but when I looked at the table and saw that even low rolls had results, I just assumed you needed an attack roll and a separate roll on the table. And...I still think you do.
The quote from the rules above is from the Armor Modifiers for Wrestling, listed under Table 42. I read it to imply that if two opponents are engaged in wrestling, then you can punch, kick, etc and it's an automatic hit (seeing as how it's almost impossible to miss when you are literally holding onto someone). At which point you would consult Table 43.
However, if it's a fist fight, then you would roll to hit, and if you hit your opponent's AC, THEN you would roll on Table 43 for the result.
Thoughts?

[Alethan]

Moved from Bloodcurse thread:

With your initiative roll, you might not get to attack at all, depending upon how Adain rolls for punching. But what I did (and what I would like you to do) is to refer to the 2E rules in the DMG on Punching & Wrestling - trust me, I'm not used to rolling the subdual and non-lethal combat stuff either, but it's really cool to look at and the charts help a lot. In case you need it, here is the link to the online 2E rules > http://www.purpleworm.org/rules/
Click on the Dungeon Masters Guide, then click on Chapter 9: Combat, then on Attacking Without Killing. You can read through that section, but you just primarily need to look at Table 43: Punching & Wrestling Results. So, using your attack above - "16" - that is a hit. So then you would roll on the Table 43 and get a result - roll a d20. For example, let's say your roll a "14" - on Table 43 that would be an Uppercut with damage being 1 + Strength bonus, and with an 8% chance of a knock out. See how easy that works?
So...if you will, go ahead and roll on Table 43 for your attack above and give me the results...not sure what Adain's roll is going to be yet - I'm just firing this off as I have a few minutes at lunch.

OOC: I thought my attack roll was the same as that roll so I would get a glancing blow with a 16 and then i'd roll percentiles on the KO?

If the attack roll is successful, consult Table 43 to find the result of the attack: Cross-index the character's modified attack roll with the proper attack form. If, for example, a character successfully punched with an 18, the result would be a rabbit punch. If he rolled an 18 on a successful wrestling attempt, the result would be a kick. Punching and wrestling attacks can succeed on attack rolls of 1 or less, exceptions to the general rule.

Okay, well maybe I'm reading it wrong. I initially thought the same thing as you fellers, but when I looked at the table and saw that even low rolls had results, I just assumed you needed an attack roll and a separate roll on the table. And...I still think you do.
The quote from the rules above is from the Armor Modifiers for Wrestling, listed under Table 42. I read it to imply that if two opponents are engaged in wrestling, then you can punch, kick, etc and it's an automatic hit (seeing as how it's almost impossible to miss when you are literally holding onto someone). At which point you would consult Table 43.
However, if it's a fist fight, then you would roll to hit, and if you hit your opponent's AC, THEN you would roll on Table 43 for the result.
Thoughts?

It certainly makes more sense! It just isn't what I got from the reading of the rules. Could very easily just be that they didn't explain it well enough.

I say go with whatever makes more sense.

[rtdersch]

I do believe Oggle is about to get his ass pounded in by this big barbarian considering were having a hand to hand fight and not with steel hehe.

That's why I want to get in on some of this action! I'm one of those doorknobs who actually take hand-to-hand skills just for occasions such as this!

[Computer +1]

You brutes!

[rtdersch]

Nokrugh may not be able to hit the broadside of a barn with his sword but he *can* hold his own hand-to-hand!

[hedgeknight]

It certainly makes more sense! It just isn't what I got from the reading of the rules. Could very easily just be that they didn't explain it well enough.

I say go with whatever makes more sense.

I agree so let's go with it!

Just for clarification:
1/ Roll to hit your opponent's AC
2/ If successful, roll on Table 43 for the type of hit or wrestle move and damage
3/ Roll % chance for KO

[AQuebman]

That's fine and i'll go ahead and make the roll my only beef and it's not much of a beef really is unless i'm making a secondary attack roll with my bonuses it's impossible on this table 43 roll to get the roll that's over 20 or under 1. Not sure how you want to play that but just wanted to point it out.

[Hoondatha]

AQ, how are you getting three punching attacks in a round? Shouldn't you just get one?

[hedgeknight]

AQ, how are you getting three punching attacks in a round? Shouldn't you just get one?

He's specialized in punching...

Kidding, Oggle should get no more than two punches, but I can't find the rule on unarmed combat - I realize it's usually just one attack, and that's what I've been rolling for the barbarians, but technically a character (assuming he/she has two hands) could get two punches a round...right?
Thoughts?

[Alethan]

Punching and Wrestling
These are the most basic of combat skills, unknowingly practiced by almost all children as they rough and tumble with each other. Thus all characters, regardless of class, are assumed to be somewhat proficient in both these forms of fighting.
Punching occurs when a character attacks with his fists. No weapons are used, although the character can wear an iron gauntlet or similar item. Wrestling requires both hands free, unencumbered by shields and the like.
When punching or wrestling, a normal attack roll is made. The normal Armor Class of the target is used. If a character is attempting to wrestle in armor, the modifiers on Table 42 are used (these are penalties to the foe's attack roll). Normal modifiers to the attack roll are also applied.

Well, since I can't find anything specific about a different attack rate in the rules, I'd assume there is no difference.

A first level character gets one attack per round normally. If they want to use both fists (i.e. dual wield), then penalties are applied.

[Hoondatha]

I don't think you can "dual-wield" your fists to get an extra attack. The rules seem to be assuming that both hands are free and being used. Complete Gladiator's Handbook, which has the most info on unarmed combat, consistently uses plural when referring to "hands," and the only way of getting an extra attack besides high level is specializing.

[Computer +1]

I have always played that you get one attack per round unless you specialized. Since I am always correct in all things that must be right.

But seriously, I think the one attack per round is fair and gives a proper bonus to those who specialize in unarmed combat.

[hedgeknight]

Sounds good to me. I prefer the single punch rule. What we don't realize is that combat in D&D is much more than just one swing here and one swing there. There are actually several things happening in those segments of time and maybe there is a punch or three in there, but only one actual attack roll is used (barring specialization of course).

[rtdersch]

I have always played that you get one attack per round unless you specialized. Since I am always correct in all things that must be right.

But seriously, I think the one attack per round is fair and gives a proper bonus to those who specialize in unarmed combat.

Agreed.

[Alethan]

Sounds good to me. I prefer the single punch rule. What we don't realize is that combat in D&D is much more than just one swing here and one swing there. There are actually several things happening in those segments of time and maybe there is a punch or three in there, but only one actual attack roll is used (barring specialization of course).

Well... I realize that.

In OD&D, one combat round is a full minute long. It would be silly to think that you're only making one swing during that minute. It's just more of a mechanic for figuring out what happens during that one minute of fighting. You land a good blow, or a few smaller blows, to cause X amount of damage during that round.