"I tell you what. Give me and my crew a flat rate of 760 gold and we are will accompany your silver delivery safely. You keep all four wheels on the wagon and your driver keeps his heads from a decorating goblin's pike-staff.
It seems the Lady values dead goblins more than live guards. You must be moving several hundred tons of raw ore. Even refined ore of the top grades is still only a handful of mineral ounces per ton. Ain't no one risking his ass attacking your freight for lumps of rock worth a 2gp piece a ton.
Now, if you are moving cast ingots, then that is another matter. A 6" x 3", 20lb bar might be worth 100gp. So let me do some orcish maths. A 400lb wagon drawn by two draft horses each pulling five times their carry capacity, minus the wagon leaves you 4,000lbs of weight. So minus a few incidentals and the driver, say 200lbs means you have 190 ingots, give or take, leaving here along the risky, bandit ridden trade routes at dawn tomorrow. So I reckon, give or take, your cargo is worth $19,000gp.
We sell our bodies for less than 4% of the shipment value. So what do you think? I can ask my esteemed comrade, the Fist of Mitra to come and sign a contract of employment and you get the best, meanest, cutthroats this side of Arden Vul."
The worth of ore
We like exploring mines here in D&D – mines that sometimes have carts filled with ore and refined metals. How much is that stuff worth?
Copper
The intrinsic value of a copper coin is equal to its extrinsic value. The DMG confirms as much, given the weight of coins and the price of copper as a trade good. According to that, one pound of copper makes 50 cp. That gets us the price of an ingot as well since that’s just a pure hunk of copper in a cool shape. A chunky ½ ft. long one (half as wide) weighs around 20 pounds and is worth 10 gp.
That leaves us ore. According to the internet, the typical yield for ore is 1%. So our 10 gp ingot comes from 2000 pounds worth of ore. However, refining ore into copper is a complicated process and adds a good chunk to the price. In our modern, industrialized, times, the overhead is at least 30%. In a D&D economy, who knows? Let’s wave our magic wands and go with the same number. Our 2000 pounds of ore is now only worth 7 gp.
Which brings us to the next question: what if you fill a minecart? A cubic foot of copper ore weighs 140 lb, so our 2000 pounds fill up 14.3 cubic feet: a 2.5’ x 2.5’ x 2.5’ block. For comparison, an oil barrel is about half at 5.6 cubic feet, which would go for 3 gp. How many of those in a cart? Your guess is as good as mine. Six seems fair?
Putting all of this together we get:
item
size
weight
value
1 lb. of copper
½ inch cube
1 lb.
0.5 gp
Copper ingot
½ foot (¼ ft. wide)
20 lb.
10 gp
Copper ore
barrel
800 lb.
3 gp
Minecart filled with copper ore
6 barrels?
5000 lb.
20 gp
Other precious metals
In real life, the yields for gold and platinum are much worse than copper. Like 0.001% for high yield gold ore and a tenth of that for platinum. That means that a minecart filled with gold or platinum ore is worth maybe 3 pieces of gold. It’s up to you if you want your world to work like that, or if you feel that silver, gold, and platinum ore should just follow the regular value progression.
Also note that gold and platinum weigh over twice as much as silver and copper, so ingots and coins are smaller.
item
size
weight
value
1 lb. of copper
½ inch cube
1 lb.
0.5 gp
1 lb. of silver
½ inch cube
1 lb.
5 gp
1 lb. of gold
0.4-inch cube
1 lb.
50 gp
1 lb. of platinum
0.4-inch cube
1 lb.
500 gp
Copper ingot
6×3 inch
20 lb.
10 gp
Silver ingot
6×3 inch
20 lb.
100 gp
Gold ingot
3×3 inch
20 lb.
1000 gp
Platinum ingot
3×3 inch
20 lb.
10,000 gp
Copper ore
barrel
800 lb.
3 gp
Silver ore
barrel
800 lb.
1 sp “realistic”
30 gp “fantasy”
Gold ore
barrel
800 lb.
3 sp “realistic”
300 gp “fantasy”
Platinum ore
barrel
800 lb.
3 sp “realistic”
3000 gp “fantasy”
How much can I carry?
Now of course you’ll want to know how much ore a typical barbarian can carry around. The answer is here (it’s 3 barbarians per barrel).
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:43 pm
by Rex
Finnr
Finnr just watches as his companions haggle, knowing they are better at this sort of thing then him.
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:13 pm
by ravenn4544
Gorug was planning to go get food but got caught up listening to the chitter chatter. After hearing all the numbers and figuring, his head hurts.
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:53 pm
by scottjen
Zahn will let the group know about the apparent game availability and will volunteer to hunt on the next leg of their trip.
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:35 pm
by Paladin
Christopher Black
The gentleman's eyes glaze over at the complexity of the current discussion. "My guts and garters," he mutters softly. "I'm glad one among us has the head for such things, because I certainly do not. Perhaps he may negotiate for us a profitable venture." Chris massages his temples and shakes his head to clear the cobwebs.
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:03 am
by Gomezthebarbarian
The merchant glances at his rings. "Somewhat ostentatious, I agree but don't begrudge me my baubles. One of the tricks of my profession is that to be successful, it is paramount to look successful. Now that you have rejected my initial offer, we can all get to negotiation...the cornerstone of all business. First, before I make a counteroffer please consider that I bought a wagon load of silver ore, roughly a ton that I bought at a slender discount. A ton of said ore will glean not even a whole ingot of silver (OOC: In real life terms, a ton produces almost one ounce!). Right now this valley is in abundance of silver, so prices are down and the market is offering only around 77 gold for what a ton of ore may produce in silver. Factor in the price of a ton of silver ore, the rent of a wagon and drover for three days, milling the ore for the silver, paying both the Green Lady and the merchants guild the taxes, fees, et cetera, ad nauseum, and you see my profit margins getting smaller and smaller. This wagon of silver ore is but a lesser side venture, a means to make enough to keep my dear wife in the latest fabrics of Archonton fashion.
Now I don't know you all from Adam and the self-professed title of 'cuthroats' does me make me pause. However, as you are in the company of a Fist of Mitra, I feel that my investment would be safer in your hands than in the ones fresh off the farm. I'd like to amend my initial offer, ahem, to say...five silver a day."
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:06 am
by Rex
Finnr
"Does that offer include food?"
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:50 pm
by OGRE MAGE
Neddard shakes his head at the offer, math not exactly being his strongpoint.
He smiles at the opulent merchant and bows at the words of respect before looking to the boisterous Felix to finish the negotiations.
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:04 pm
by Spearmint
Felix
as I put in my spoiler comments, silver ore by the ton is worth little. Profit comes at the jeweller's end. I am not sure on the currency and local finances of the region but a watered down ale is 1sp a glass. More money in brewing hooch than bodyguarding lumps of rock.
Felix is not getting out of bed for that wage.
A wagon pulled by two horses will take 4+tons of weight. What about his competitors? Can we organise a freight train of multiple wagons? Six wagons, six NPC drivers, we are what six guards? Neddard can be the teamster and we have a skilled ranger among us to plot alternative courses. Need a mule drawn chuck wagon for supplies and campfire cooking. Also layer out spare freight with local made rugs, pelts, crafts for export.
You have goblins on the way? How about we smuggle illicit arms to them and get some 'frontier trade' going. Bows, spears, axes.
Who is Green Lady? Can you unionize the mines and up the co-operative supply costs. Tell her we have a werewolf problem so silver is needed for enhanced soft blades, daggers and arrowheads. So the price is going up to 100gp a ton.
Felix offers a few suggestions but seriously, he isn't going to travel three or four days looking after lumps of rock for 1gp in wages.
Ingots yes, rock no. Not unless the whole enterprise is worth the risk.
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:14 pm
by Gomezthebarbarian
The merchant looks resigned and shrugs. "It's against everything I know but...ten silver a day, food and drink provided. That and a word from me to the guild for future prospects. I simply cannot go any higher than that.
Guys, I'd like to get this going so everyone gets to Glosterwick and the Halls.
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:13 pm
by Rex
Finnr
Whispering to the others, "I am good with it, its really just a way for us to get somewhere else with free food."
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:46 pm
by Spearmint
Felix
"10sp per day! For firkins sake, my big green ass is worth more than that brazen strumpets half hour of sweet-petite. Ain't that so Neddard, you tell him. You pay peanuts you're gonna get the monkeys."
He will go with the group only because the wagon is going in the direction that want to travel and it saves walking, but the wage is derisory.
"It does save walking right? I mean, how big is this wagon of ore?"
He looks disgruntled. "I'll take a gold piece in advance if you don't mind, these boots ain't made for walking so I'm going to need a fancy cobblers to prime me for the trek.
Firkins sake, selling my soul and body just to get heeled up and a new sole. Templars be right proud."
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:59 pm
by OGRE MAGE
Neddard nods his large head of perfect hair at the merchant.
"If the others agree, and it seems they do, we will take your offer good sir."
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:16 pm
by gurusql
Oswell
"Oswell also agrees to the offer."
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:02 pm
by ravenn4544
Gorug shrugs, "what are we waiting for?"
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:59 pm
by scottjen
Zahn agrees to the offer. I will scout ahead of the wagons and keep an eye out for sign of kobolds and such.
If finding nothing on his daily scouting, he will also keep an eye out for game so the group can get fresh meat.
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:00 pm
by Rex
Finnr
"It seems we have agreed then, lets get on with it."
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:36 pm
by Paladin
Christopher Black
"What's that?" The gentleman rogue snaps out of his mathematically-induced coma and blinks twice. "We have an agreement? Excellent! Let us be away."
Re: Burdock's Valley
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:29 am
by Gomezthebarbarian
The merchant claps and rubs his hands together, ordering the barkeep to bring everyone and round of drinks on him. "Please be at the main gate come morning. The wagon and drover will be there. Safe travels my friends!" With that he rises up and and wends his way out the inn.
OOC: Someone wanted to visit Brumm, the dwarven mercantilist. Is this trip still warranted?