Design Questions

[dmw71]

What are some examples of great introductory AD&D (1e or 2e) modules? Maybe even Basic D&D modules.

Essentially, I am looking for some of the best examples of published adventures that are written for beginning characters... so I can study them and see how the modules are populated in terms of experience points (monsters, treasure, etc...).

For 1e, I am having a difficult time plotting a module that will take a brand new group of adventurers to 2nd level.

[Rex]

I think B1 is the best introduction module. It was written for Holmes Basic which itself was meant to be an introduction to AD&D or OD&D since nothing was finalized for AD&D yet. B2 is also very good and many will probably say it is the best.

[dmw71]

I think B1 is the best introduction module. It was written for Holmes Basic which itself was meant to be an introduction to AD&D or OD&D since nothing was finalized for AD&D yet. B2 is also very good and many will probably say it is the best.

I question B1, only because (at least to my understanding) the DM is meant to populate most of it. I'm looking for modules that were specifically designed to take 1st level characters and raise them to (at least) 2nd level. I want to examine/study the design choices, and how that was accomplished.

I did some quick analysis last night, and in 1e, the average amount of XP needed per character class to reach 2nd level is 2,001 xp:

Class	XP Needed
Cleric	1,501
Druid	2,001
Fighter	2,001
Paladin	2,751
Ranger	2,251
Magic-User	2,501
Illusionist	2,251
Thief	1,251
Assassin	1,501
---	---
Total	18,009

Total XP (18,009) / Classes (9) = 2,001

Average Party Size: 5

2,001 * 5 = 10,005



What I really need to understand is:

How are 1st level modules providing the opportunity for the party to gain 10,000+ xp?


It can't simply be through monster xp. Are they just doling out tons of treasure?

[Rex]

B1 supplied a list of monsters and another of treasure and explained how the dm should use them to populate the dungeon which had traps and room descriptions and history all done for the dm. It was an actually introduction on how to populate a dungeon. You can of course ignore the lists and make up something free form too.

[Rex]

I have seen a couple of different ratios for how xp should be awarded but off the top of my head all I can remember is treasure is most, followed by monsters, then magic items/special awards. Some switch the order on monsters and magic but then in my opinion you end up with a monty haul campaign. So much treasure is why there were so many rules that sucked up treasure like training.

[dmw71]

Cave A. Kobold Lair
Per Character: 522 xp (2,608/5 = 521.6)

Room	Room Description	Monster(s)	Monster XP	Treasure	Treasure XP
1	Guard Room	6 Kobolds	48 xp	6d6 silver	~2 xp
2	Giant Rats	18 Giant Rats	162 xp	Silver chain set (475 gp)	475 xp
3	Food Storage Room	None	0 xp	None	0 xp
4	Guard Room	3 Kobolds	30 xp	6-18 gp	~12 xp
5	Kobold Chieftain's Room	1 Huge Kobold | 5 Female Kobolds	48 xp	Large gem (1,200 gp), 50 gp, 5-30 gp, 203 cp, 61 sp, 22 ep	~1,287 xp
6	Common Chamber	17 Male Kobolds | 23 Female Kobolds | 8 Young Kobolds	297 xp	17d6 sp | 23d4 sp, Silk (150 gp)	~247 xp

---

Approximate XP Totals

• Monster XP: 585 xp (48 + 162 + 0 + 30 + 48 + 297)
• Treasure XP: 2,023 xp (2 + 475 + 0 + 12 + 1,287 + 247)
  ---
• Total Possible XP: 2,608

[dmw71]

Cave A. Kobold Lair

Completely clearing out Cave A (which will be extremely difficult!) will net each character in a 5 PC party 522 xp (leaving a thief with less than half the total xp needed).



Tough module!

[Rex]

How long of a session would you think clearing out that cave complex to take? I ask as the old rule of thumb was 3 to 4 4 hour sessions to level up. So, it looks about right to me for xp. In my f2f group we run 10 to 12 hour sessions and level up every other session. Occasionally it will go once a session if they accomplish a lot or even 3 sessions to level up when we spend to much time talking about non-game stuff.

[Leitz]

Late to the party, sorry. If you need a minimum amount of X.P., would spacing the encounters out and having a decent recovery point work?

A party needs food, water, torches, healing, and rest. If the dungeon is a cave, like The Unknown Darkness, then exiting the cave for a day of rest and recovery is easy and can keep the 1st level group going for a while. Especially if the cleric can heal. As long as the encounters are physically separate then going in and out is less likely to run into everything at once.

While "iron rations" are pricy, a loaf of bread and some cheese isn't. You can adventure on basic food for several days, and then get back to the tavern with your gold and tales. That's when you have the feast.

[hedgeknight]

Level advancement in 1E is very slow. My 1E game on RPoL lasted for 10 years and the characters reached 6-7th level. And I gave out a shit ton of XP for nearly everything! Don't expect your 1st level characters to advance in an ordinary module.

[dmw71]

Late to the party, sorry.

Not at all. Awesome to have you.

If you need a minimum amount of X.P., would spacing the encounters out and having a decent recovery point work?

So, this really only becomes a "thing" if my plan/design calls for a string of related adventures forming a larger campaign. Essentially twenty one-shots forming a larger level 1-to-20 campaign, or something similar. If the second module necessitates having the party be second level, logic dictates that the first module should provide enough XP to get them to that point, no?

And, as I'm typing this out, I'm realizing how challenging something like that would be for AD&D due to the amounts of XP needed to advance per class is staggered. Hmmm...

A party needs food, water, torches, healing, and rest. If the dungeon is a cave, like The Unknown Darkness, then exiting the cave for a day of rest and recovery is easy and can keep the 1st level group going for a while. Especially if the cleric can heal. As long as the encounters are physically separate then going in and out is less likely to run into everything at once.

Very good point.

P.S. That was a fun game!

Looking back, I really didn't play Thokk very well. He really shouldn't have been the idiot I was making him out to be. I'll blame this on his low wisdom.

While "iron rations" are pricy, a loaf of bread and some cheese isn't.

Reading this, it reminds me of how much I've disliked rations in D&D. As a kid (and, if I'm being completely honest, even now as an adult), what the heck is an iron ration? Or even a standard ration? Why is the encumbrance for one (iron = 75 coins) so much lower than the other (standard = 200 coins)?

[dmw71]

Level advancement in 1E is very slow. My 1E game on RPoL lasted for 10 years and the characters reached 6-7th level. And I gave out a shit ton of XP for nearly everything! Don't expect your 1st level characters to advance in an ordinary module.

Which kind of has me leaning against the idea of creating a string of related modules meant to be be played one after the other as part of a series.



But, again, I think what's important for me now is not worrying so much about the big picture, and just taking something to completion.

One adventure, fully written, for whatever party level range.

I can worry about what happens before (or after) later.

[hedgeknight]

One adventure, fully written, for whatever party level range.

^This. No need to worry beyond this.

[Leitz]

And, as I'm typing this out, I'm realizing how challenging something like that would be for AD&D due to the amounts of XP needed to advance per class is staggered. Hmmm...

Give Scarik's game a look. The dungeoneering isn't the end, it's the means to domain level power and income. Realistically, given that PCs get followers around level eight or so, will a dungeon even work? The party composition and motivations will be so unique that guessing what they will need is impossible.

While "iron rations" are pricy, a loaf of bread and some cheese isn't.

Reading this, it reminds me of how much I've disliked rations in D&D. As a kid (and, if I'm being completely honest, even now as an adult), what the heck is an iron ration? Or even a standard ration? Why is the encumbrance for one (iron = 75 coins) so much lower than the other (standard = 200 coins)?

Ever had Vietnam era C Rations? Meal in a box, I had them 10-15 years after packing and they were just as blah as the day they were made. It wasn't the taste, but the mobility. Small box, small cans (and a small pack of cigarettes!) inside, and you could store them, pack them, or whatever.

Really, water is key. Some bread for bulk, cheese and jerked meat for protein, and you're good to go.

[Rex]

Vietnam and older rations suck. The idea of rations in D&D is more for ease of tracking and simplicity than actual historical value for anything like the time period most games would be set in.

[Leitz]

Vietnam and older rations suck. The idea of rations in D&D is more for ease of tracking and simplicity than actual historical value for anything like the time period most games would be set in.

Agreed on both counts. The entire D&D economy is kinda borked, anyway. Not something dmw71 needs to fix in his module, though.

[Rex]

Not worth trying really, just something the historian in me lives with.