OOC Discussion

[ffilz]

I'm still in. The Bushido game should restart (after the regrettable TPK) this weekend.

OK, sounds like we're still going. If we could have one more player response, I'll post the next step.

[Marullus]

What are you looking for?

[ffilz]

What are you looking for?

I did give a response to your skill check. Maybe it's just time to assume the three of you are ready to go.

[Marullus]

Oh, sorry.

Yeah, I assumed we were ready to go. The roll result didn't really have anything I thought was actionable. I hoped it would prove insightful as we got rolling.

[Starbeard]

I'm happy to keep going. You know me, I'm always happy with a slower post rate.

[ffilz]

OK, we're definitely on, I will try and post by this weekend (otherwise I'm off to the beach next week and may not get much chance to post).

[Marullus]

They like to tell tales like of the ghostly wrestlers of the Katada hills in Omi province, as those tales are spooky but yet harmless. Or they are titilated by the tales of the Goblin of Adachigahara, disguised as a hag and living only on human flesh, because those places are long ago and far away, and not here in the next town. The peasants and samurai would never look upon the gnawed bones when close at hand. He sips his saki again, listening intently for glimmers of truth among the lies of their tales.

Just for reference, these are real stories. The content is not relevant, but only in the context of him reflecting on the fact that living men like tales that are either fanciful or far away/long ago... not immediate and visceral. As an Eta, he looks on those things that others dare not.

Just to share resources...

I picked a copy of Japanese Myths, Some of which are the same as this book.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/45723/4 ... 5723-h.htm

The Ghostly Wrestlers
In Omi province, at the base of the Katada hills, there is a lake. During the cloudy nights of early autumn a ball of fire emerges from the margin of the lake, expanding and contracting as it floats toward the hills. When it rises to the height of a man it reveals two shining faces, to develop slowly into the torsos of two naked wrestlers, locked together and struggling furiously. The ball of fire, with its fierce combatants, floats slowly away to a recess in the Katada hills. It is harmless so long as no one interferes with it, but it resents any effort to retard its progress. According to a legend concerning this phenomenon, we are informed that a certain wrestler, who had never suffered a defeat, waited at midnight for the coming of this ball of fire. When it reached him he attempted to drag it down by force, but the luminous globe proceeded on its way, and hurled the foolish wrestler to a considerable distance.

This one is a better example for Goblin of Adachigahara. This is a beautiful reading, but too long to paste here.

[ffilz]

I picked these two books up a while ago, and have been reading slowly. I haven't tried to translate anything into the game yet, but some good reading:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/48053 ... UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B6L ... UTF8&psc=1

I found them after seeing a book on Japanese myths at a bookstore at the beach last summer. That book clearly had a western author, so I sought out books with Japanese authors to be closer to the source.

[ffilz]

I'm not quite ready to give up on this but taxes are due next week and we've had Easter and another event this weekend, so it may be next week before I can post an update...

[jemmus]

Those all look like good books. From my experience, the ghost tales in English are good and trustworthy. But you have to be careful about Western writers writing about samurai, especially if it's fiction. Along the way some false impressions about samurai developed by writers in the West, and other writers generationally carried them forward as false memes. Some examples.

-A samurai would rather die than retreat. There are plenty of historical examples of samurai routing and fleeing a battlefield. For example, as we say with the Taira in a Bushido game getting startled by water fowl at night and routing.

-A samurai is steadfastly loyal to his lord. That is a part of the Bushido code, which various samurai writers came up with after the wars had ended and samurai didn't have much to do but be semi-impoverished bureaucrats. One of the most interesting things about samurai history is the intrigue and the treachery. Very Game of Thrones-like.

-A samurai commits seppuku to avoid shame and preserve his honor. From the reading, it seems more like they did it because there was no other choice. People then were very loyalty and owed intense obligations to family and kin. An Japan was an archipelago surrounded by seas. There was no place to run, and no easy way to assume a new (false) identity. By bravely committing excruciating seppuku, the failed and shamed samurai could at least show the world (and the family) that he wasn't a coward. Which could in the eyes of public opinion, and the victor's opinions, could prevent the victors from exterminating the whole family, or scattering it and sending its members down to the lowest levels of society and poverty. I think it was duty to the family and shame at failing it-- and wanting to avoid disappointing and shaming the familial ancestors-- more than pride and wanting to preserve individual honor. It doesn't seem that samurai thought of themselves as full "individuals," in the Western sense.

I'd guess there are a lot of good ideas for samurai-themed games in those ghostly books. I may have mentioned before that I found what I thought was pretty brilliant samurai Japan-based adventure on drivethruRPG. It was written by a current presumably American GM guy. It was the basis for Taisho's, Haruto's et. al's strange, inconclusive visit to the strange inn with the innkeeper holding the lantern for the maid, and his wife strangely talking to herself in front the guests. Part 2 was supposed to happen during another stop there on the return trip.... Really well in the spirit of a Japan ghost tale, I thought. You guys are both running samurai Japan theme games, so I won't give you a spoiler about the title. Unless you want one. The stats for the NPCs were for a D&D 3E or something, so some adaptation work would be needed.

[Starbeard]

Absolutely. The only thing I'd qualify is that you have to be careful about the books by Japanese authors too, since they also have wildly imaginative modern popular opinions about their past. It's like saying any book about the Cowboys of the Old West written by an American is immune to sensationalist poppycock, which of course just isn't true.

The farther back you go, the easier it is for foreign writers to go astray, but in modern times I think as long as you can confirm that the author is a vetted, peer-reviewed academic authority then you're probably okay in most subjects. So in that sense I usually look at the authors' publications and research activities, and if I want the "local popular take" then I'll trust the local source obviously; but if I just want a rigorous and balanced take, then I'll trust a "foreign" recognized authority over a local popular or journalistic writer.

[jemmus]

Yes, that's kind of my approach too. An excellent book of that type is Shogun: The Life of Shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu. It was written by a British scholar in the 1920s or 1930s, I think. Then there's George Sansom's series of books on Japan's history. He's another British scholar from the early 20th century. The reading is pretty dry, because he's a historian only focused on giving accurate facts. But despite the writing style being something you have to doggedly steamroll through, the history itself is really interesting. The court politics and intrigues in the period we're playing (the Heian Period) are as intricate, complicated, and brutal as anything from the Borgias or the Medicis. Maybe more so.

A great resource is Samurai History Archives and it's companion forums. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/japanese_history/ People ask very detailed questions, and member reply and fact-check each other. British samurai Japan Anthony Bryant scholar used to be a member, he might still be. Tony's really cool, he interacts like any other forum member. In the main Archives site, you can search for about anything samurai that you can imagine.

When I went to Japan, I was surprised at how modern Japanese view the samurai. They don't glorify them or much glamorize them. They see them as rough men who did a lot of killing and dying, rapine and looting, and bullying everyone else on behalf of the daimyo. A couple of people reminded me that samurai just means "one who serves/does as directed." In other words, a soldier of the daimyo, with no free will or initiative of his own. The daimyo themselves are seen as self-serving, power-hungry, conniving, and completely ruthless men. (With the exception of Uesugi Kenshin, who became a Buddhist monk and tried to retire, but the clan wouldn't let him, so he was monk and daimyo at the same time. He seems to have been a truly honorable person).

And, like anything else, it's not as simple as that, and there are exceptions. After the Age of Warring States and when the country was finally pacified, the samurai of the winning side found themselves made into mostly poorly-paid civil servants. (The excellent, in my opinion, film "Twilight Samurai" shows this part well. And to my amateur self, it has a lot authentic-looking kenjutsu swordplay). The samurai of the losing side found themselves made into masterless ronin. Bushi from either group went on "sword quests" to test and try to perfect their skill. The two most famous ones are Musashi Miyamoto and Sasaki Kojiro. Stories about these wandering sword quest "gunslinger" guys inspired a lot of film noir-like scripts from the late 40s through at least the 60s. And the idea of the unflinching, and then instantly and precisely acting swordsman.*

That said, it seemed that modern Japanese do respect the samurai's courage, stoicism, and self-discipline. I do think they see that as shaping the country's culture and being an important part of its heritage.

*Westerns, where the steely-eyed opponents at each other, then quick draw and fire; Hongkong kung fu martial arts films, where the hero ends up encircled by many opponents and rapidly takes out all of them in a masterful sequence; Japanese sword films, where the swordsman does both. Who borrowed from who? Or did nobody borrow from anybody? And it just happened according to each country's set of memes?

[Marullus]

Plot hook…

Thanks for saying so.

The idea that a magic user left a recorded message proporting to be a ghost that says to go down the ambushable road... particularly if it repeats for each group of bushi that wanders along...

I will definitely use that device.

[jemmus]

Me too. You should see it in the ninja Bushido game before long.

[ffilz]

I was dealing with converting a Bushido scenario where a character can (sort of) easily do a Walk the Way spell, which would be Astral Walk in Cold Iron, a 7th level spell...

[Starbeard]

Ezo resists the impulse to simply take up his bow and shoot the tengu from the saddle. After all, the sadhana of the warrior requires improvement, victory itself is tangential.

He dismounts and draws his blade. "Come down here, you cackling creature, and we will see who learns from whom."

I'll wait just in case Kiyoshi wants to accept the challenge also, though as ronin, I assume he would defer to samurai Ezo.

I'm happy either way, letting whomever fight. I don't mind us fighting it together either. I know that's not very iconic of bushido imagery, but then again tengu probably weren't viewed as particularly honorable in our period, so maybe we wouldn't assume to face it one at a time. Whatever you think works best.

[ffilz]

Oof, out of time before I go to the beach, I may get a chance at the beach, otherwise, it will be next week for the next update.

[dmw71]

Just checking in on the status of this (and your other game).

Can you please let me know if these are still meant to be active, or if they should be archived until you're in a better position to maintain them?

[ffilz]

I think the reality at this point is that I just don't have the time to keep these running at any sort of reasonable pace. Let's archive this one.

I may revive this again at some point.

With this one, I am happy that a measure of success was had to use Cold Iron to run a samurai game.

In the meantime, if Cold Iron is of interest, seek me out at the RPG Pub or on my discord (did I invite everyone?). I'm actually working on making a full Cold Iron RPG that could be published. We'll see how it goes depending on if I can get license from the original designer.

[jemmus]

Interesting! Let us know how it goes. Maybe we can play test it for you.