OOC Discussion (Session 1 & 2)

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Ludanto
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Re: OOC Discussion

#21 Post by Ludanto »

Hmm. How much OOC goes here?

Bill, do you wander of alone through the waist-high grass? How do you test the water of it looks ok? Do you dip in a hand and take a sip?
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Marullus
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Re: OOC Discussion

#22 Post by Marullus »

BillTheGalacticHero wrote:
Ludanto wrote:. Also, who's mapping?
I would, but I don't have that skill - until in real life where I actually was a cartographer for several years.
The Elf was considering taking Cartography as his specialty, in which case he is mapping. If not, then it falls to Allric.
Ludanto wrote:You people all lead very interesting lives.
That's a blessing and a curse. ;)

As for Bill's IC action, it is your call as to whether you want to keep the story thread all IC or if you want to discuss OOC there so that it remains tied together. We could also put the OOC in spoiler tags. Your call.

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Re: OOC Discussion

#23 Post by Marullus »

I'm not sure how experience each person here is with Torchbearer. It sounded like from the recruiting thread that we have a lot of players that are new to the system and learning it. Since we have to OOC type everything that would normally be easily conveyed across a table (and gauge understanding without any personal cues), I'll just type a bunch of stuff here. Everyone, please, tell when it's not needed and I'll stop. :)

First example of play:

"You travel through the woods until you find the dwarven monestary. You see this description of it. What do you do?"

"We ponder where to begin based on what we know (ala the Loremaster), and what we know about dwarves here (ala the dwarf) and monestaries (ala the cleric)."
"Thag also has an instinct to always check for potable water and there's a body of water here. Can I trigger that first?"

"The waist-high grass looks suspicious. You need to cross the open field before inspecting the ruins or the pond. What do you do?"

"Thag scouts ahead, heading toward the pond per his instinct. He swishes his way through with his staff, wary of traps and ambushes."


Torchbearer is particular about the order of things.
During play, your GM describes the environment and enemies around you. As you explore and question that description, you'll bump against speciffic obstacles you'll need to overcome or bypass in order to continue.

Never Volunteer
If you've described your character's actions, volunteered for a task or laid out a highly detailed plan that mysteriously doesn't involve risking yourself, you make the test. There's no backing out.

Strategizing
Huddle up and discuss your options. Come up with a good plan before describing your actions to the GM.


It is generally passe to speculate on the nature and difficulty of the tests (it falls under Never Volunteer). We're expected to state our IC actions and the GM tells us the test. So, "Thag scouts ahead, heading toward the pond per his instinct. He swishes his way through with his staff, wary of traps and ambushes" rather than "Thag can address the grass as an Ob 3 Scout test with a +1D from the pole he's swishing the grasses with."

Strategizing in PbP is a bit thorny - we need to have the OOC conversations and clearly state a single intent to the GM because each test has consequences and advances The Grind, causing us to take penalties. Too much OOC, however, makes the game feel mechanistic and lose its roleplay/story focus. (The last game got trapped in this.) Stating things as IC actions, discussing options in dialog instead of OOC where possible, and keeping the volume of red text down (or in spoilers) may help.

I've also seen some procedures adopted in the past:
- Help is assumed because we're working together as best we can. The person making the test suggests the help he's getting from others based on their sheets so he can move forward with rolling (unless we have narrative that specifies otherwise). Everyone posts IC action as narrative based on that. [Announcing the challenge, deciding who's doing the test, then waiting for everyone to post help, then doing the test, then adjudicating it takes twice as long.]
- Keep OOC short and IC posts long. [Lets agree to focus on telling the story as much as we can.]
- Help with Wises first. [If a wise is applicable, it can provide 1D help without exposing the helper to consequences]
- Then help with Skills. [If we have suggested help-skills in the group, use 'em where we can.]
- Helpers decide if they log the test. [If a helper has a Check, they can spend the check and mark advancement for the skill they helped with (if it is a skill and not a wise) and announces it as OOC in a post. If you don't have a check, then the help doesn't count for advancement.]

We have six characters and every test advances The Grind. Skill tests are at a premium. When you're doing a test, try to take on as many helpers as you can and also try to use your trait against yourself to earn a Check if its feasible. As we rotate around who is the lead on any given test to share opportunities you can earn the checks, and then when you're helping others you can still benefit with some advancement. We also need Checks to enter camp (it is advisable to do so pretty often, as it helps us avoid the Grind) and for camp-only skill use (like recovery tests, alchemy, scholar, cooking, etc). Checks are important. We need to describe how our traits work against us and take a -1D to the test whenever we can.
The Grind
Every fourth turn during the adventure phase, all characters earn a condition....
Hungry and Thirsty, Exhausted, Angry, Sick, Injured, Afraid, Dead (in order)

The Grind is the standing threat. As we do things in the game, we pick up conditions that are then difficult to remove. That's why we're cautious about stating IC actions which will cause tests - every test an individual does has a repercussion on the whole group via The Grind.

The exception is Instincts. An Instinct allows a test (which lets you accomplish something AND advance your skill) without advancing the Grind. Thus, instincts triggering is good. So, any time there is a place that might have a body of water, Thag gets a free Survivalist test to look for it and check if it is potable. Every time we encounter someone who is suffering, Berry gets a free Healer test to help alleviate their suffering. Every time we camp, Allric whips up a magical elixir (free Alchemist test) and Aiofe repairs damaged gear (free Armorer test).

It is expected practice that you try to Camp after the third action if you're in a safe place AND have a Check to spend to enter the camp phase. Many times we're facing problems and can't camp, then the Grind is unavoidable. Do it when you can. For our specific group so far, spending a check to enter camp not only resets the Grind, it also triggers the instincts to repair gear and make elixirs, and it also resets Allric's magic, letting him rememorize a spell. That's a lot of good from each time we Camp from spending just the one check to enter the Camp phase. Being able to spend more checks IN camp for camp-related tests is then a bonus - all checks must be spent before camp phase ends each time.
Recovery Order
Conditions are pernicious. You must relieve them in order. Hungry and Thirsy, Afraid, Angry, Exhausted, Injured, and Sick. If your character is both angry and exhausted he must assuage his anger before he can benefit from rest.
Notice that this order is different than the order in which you get them during the Grind.

Allric has an instinct to make Elixirs every time we make camp (therefore not causing grind or spending an extra check). His Elixirs can cure someone's Afraid, Angry or Exhausted conditions for them (i.e. without the risk of them failing the attempt).

Berry can use the Healer skill to make poultices that give a +1D to Recovery tests for Exhausted, Afraid, Sick, Injured, and Angry. (Sick and Injured being only helped by this and not by Elixirs).

We have three cloaks, which allow a +1D to Health checks for three characters to recover in Camp.

Allric has a Health 2, where Rabon and Berry both have Health 3. (Thag and Aiofe are Health 5.) If we get bad conditions on Allric, Rabon, or Berry, they're going to be tough to remove - we need to do our best to avoid the Grind and then prioritize recovery when conditions happen anyway (as they will for failed tests).

I'll stop there. Is this helpful?

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BillTheGalacticHero
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Re: OOC Discussion

#24 Post by BillTheGalacticHero »

Should we be taking these tests so soon? Since we have dull canteens I think we should just record in our "map" that there is water here that needs to be tested and move on.

Should we be worried about a marching order? If we are then I think Aoifevor myself should lead, we have the highest Health and Fighter skills, the other would bring up the rear. We'll switch ever so often, because if you're not the lead dog the scenery never changes.
Then probably the mage (he's party leader isn't he?) or the thief, then the ranger, then either myself of Aoife.

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Re: OOC Discussion

#25 Post by Marullus »

Really, it is Ludanto who will decide what tests are necessary. :) No matter what our ideas were, what is in that grass trumps it, for example.

I don't see harm in an instinct, though. They don't trigger often and don't cost for the roll (unless you fail).

Marking it on the map comes when we do the Cartography test in camp (the elf could consider making "update the map" as his/her instinct if they take the skill - it saves on checks). We only know that there's safe water here, though, if you pass your Survivalist check to determine that.

I don't see "marching order" in Torchbearer... Since fighting is a group conflict, order within the group seems less important. It seems to come more in-play with Light: who is carrying the light source and who is in Light, Dim Light, or Dark around them. I am interested in how flexible changing that is for Ludanto. It would seem that people could re-arrange around the lantern bearer from turn to turn. Or, if my spell is used, the light orbs are re-arranged by thought.

We do have the most to lose with tests right now - if we trigger the Grind, we are not not only Hungry but also lose Fresh. I would recommend we deal with the challenge of the approach, do a Lore test, perhaps investigate the exterior, and camp after Turn 3. That way we get our investigation setup and still have Fresh when we go in. Not sure if that's realistic.

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Re: OOC Discussion

#26 Post by Ludanto »

So, no test yet. Good Idea, etc. No Grind yet either, though.

To avoid falling down these rabbit holes (Ob1) it's best practice to just say what you do with as much detail as is reasonable and only worry about skills when they come up.

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Re: OOC Discussion

#27 Post by Marullus »

Would you rather he adjust that Instinct, then?

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Re: OOC Discussion

#28 Post by Ludanto »

It's perfectly good instinct. If he wants to describe how he goes off, looking for potable water, he can.

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Re: OOC Discussion

#29 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

I'm away for a few days, so peeing will be difficult. Sorry to do this at the beginning of the game. :(

I haven't chosen an instinct or BIGs yet. I'll think more on them tonight, though and try to update my sheet. I'm about the game thread until then so it doesn't color my thinking.

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Re: OOC Discussion

#30 Post by Marullus »

Rusty Tincanne wrote:I'm away for a few days, so peeing will be difficult.
...is that a typo? :shock:

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Re: OOC Discussion

#31 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

Not at all. For three separate, but equally valid reasons, I only pee in my own home. The first reason is because of...



Of course it's a typo! :lol: (Actually, a victim of autocorrect.)

It was supposed to say "post."

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Re: OOC Discussion

#32 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

So I am finally catching up on character creation. A bit late, sorry.


Two thing I see are:

Thag could be holding a spear instead of a staff. It would change the story thus far, but would prefer several benefits to the group. It is a point weapon with different bonuses in combat. Also, Rabon can only start with a dagger, so That could hand it off if he wants to use his sword (or even permanently!). Also, if Thag wants, he is welcome to use Rabon's 10' pole when scouting, especially if he is swapping out a spear. ;)

The second thing is that Berry is holding a cloak, but Thag has room in his pack for it. If Thag packs it, that allows Berry to be a torchbearer. Just a thought.

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Re: OOC Discussion

#33 Post by Marullus »

I think that is all sound. A spear fits Thag well, and still can narratively be a walking stick and poke things.

Allric also has a pole, just described more creatively. He's also willing to share it if needed.

Rabon and Allric both wear cloaks; Berry's is optional. I don't see harm in him carrying it (and the lantern) both, though. I would rather see Thag pack two slots of oil than a spare cloak.

ETA: Speaking of which, it might be worth holding the Lantern in hand instead of packing it - that is two more free slots. Thought?

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Re: OOC Discussion

#34 Post by BillTheGalacticHero »

I agree about the spear, but it's not one of the starting weapons for a Strider, only daggers, hand-axes, swords, and whips.
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Re: OOC Discussion

#35 Post by Ludanto »

So, we might be limited by the dice roller here.

We could consider https://rolz.org

I've got a dice room called "LudantoDice".
"Mi pensas, ke mia simio metis sian piedon en vian trinkaĵon."
Neniam dividu la adventurgrupon.
"Ĉu vi volas koboldojn? Ĉar tiel estas kiel oni akiras koboldojn!"

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Re: OOC Discussion

#36 Post by Marullus »

Just roll in sets of five dice at a time.

I would prefer not to mix websites as navigating firewalls is hard.

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Re: OOC Discussion

#37 Post by Ludanto »

Fair enough!
"Mi pensas, ke mia simio metis sian piedon en vian trinkaĵon."
Neniam dividu la adventurgrupon.
"Ĉu vi volas koboldojn? Ĉar tiel estas kiel oni akiras koboldojn!"

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Re: OOC Discussion

#38 Post by BillTheGalacticHero »

Game mechanic question.

And I hope y'all don't mind my typing options in the in-character thread, I'm using this PbF session to learn the rules, and typing the options helps.

So, my question is - on pg 66 in You Reap What You Sow that you get a share of the results of success. Does that mean we get a Passed check for helping?

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Re: OOC Discussion

#39 Post by BillTheGalacticHero »

For the test to open the tower door you said to record our test. What skill did we use? I thought it was Health - using brute strength. Do we record a pass result there, for Health?

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Re: OOC Discussion

#40 Post by Marullus »

Explained a little in my rambling above - in order to record a pass or fail on a skill test where you helped, you need to spend a Check. You get a check by using a trait against yourself on an earlier test.

Unfortunately, nobody has any Checks yet.
- Aiofe records a Pass for her Health attribute from Turn 1. She chose not to earn a check with her trait, though.
- Allric will record a Beginners Luck test for Scout, but also didn't get to earn a Check. (His Trait die was one of the only ones not halved, so he needed to use it for a positive. +1D).

If whomever does the test for Turn 3 doesn't earn a Check, then we can't spend it and enter the Camp phase either, which will cause us to move into Turn 4, all get Hungry/Thirsty, and all lose Fresh.

Needless to say, I am really hoping it is safe enough for us to take a break after whatever comes next in Turn 3. :)

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