OOC Discussion (Session 1 & 2)

[ffilz]

I'm at work and it's diificult to do much other than read on a tiny droid phone. I'll write up an IC response sometime tonight. Something along the lines that my mentor would believe that werewolves are right there with cultists, both preying on the weak.

Ok, I'll wait for that, your statement should be enough for Galen to go along.

[Ludanto]

I hope this goes well. You guys are a lot of fun and good sports, and so far it looks like you're winning!

[BillTheGalacticHero]

Are we able to update the Log you created? There were two tests triggered by instincts that didn't advance the grind. Would you be putting them in the log as unnumbered tests? It might help with whomever is going to do the prologue.

In the second Adventure phase there was an instinct-triggered test after the search of the spider tower (so unnumbered, but position 1.5) - Thag got a really good result of a scout, I believe it was Galen who helped.

The chase was Thag with help, I believe it was Galen again.

Then after the chase, before the wolf-convince there was another instrinct-triggered Scout by Thag with help from Rabon, but it was a failure.

[BillTheGalacticHero]

When we camp, are we going to attempt Cooking? Maybe we should cook a second meal to give to our new allies, as a show of good faith?

[Ludanto]

I do need to update the log, but I'm stuck with my phone right now, so it's a pain. Thanks for the notes, though.

[Marullus]

I feel like you might be spamming "Thoughtful"

Figuring we should discuss this. What are your expectations which are not being met?

I thought I was being within bounds - a Level 2 trait is usable in any applicable test. My assumption is that any proactive action I am taking is one in which I can apply thoughtfully preparing for it. I assume it won't be useful when he needs to react spontaneously to something externally, like a trap or ambush. I also have the right to overthink a situation and uses it against myself, which I have done for Checks already. Most things, though, are things that he's plotted and strategized -- having Thoughtful x2 and bringing it into play is a big part of his Embodiment.

[Ludanto]

It was just the last couple of instances. Thoughtful has connotations of being slow, careful, subdued and often internal. An aggressive shouting match with a wolf didn't seem like the right place for it. At least not back to back. Perceptions vary, of course, and it was not really a problem this time.

[BillTheGalacticHero]

I'm a little confused about our deal with the wolves, I think we have agreed to defeat the spider for them. I am also curious if we could use an intelligent wolf to help tracking things, like spiders, or lost children? Will the wolves accept us as an allied pack? I'm willing to try to set set some small game snares for rabbits to share food with them.

If we've agreed to at least help him with the spider then I'll make an IC statement or two.

[Rusty Tincanne]

I'm a little confused about our deal with the wolves...

Marullus stated the stakes in the in game thread.

...my overall stake for this is, The wolf obeys me as its new Alpha. That covers all I said and aligns with my core intent, which is to cow this thing into subservience to Allric's display of power and authority. He's confronting it in wolf terms, and acknowledging Allric as head of its new pack structure should be a natural act.

It wasn't disputed in by Ludanto, so basically, we get what we want now. We owe the wolf nothing. The question is if it extends to the pack. Who knows?

Do we just take the mushrooms and camp out in the tower again? Then head for town? Rabon has a helmet, mushrooms and a weapon honing kit. Not as much as he might have hoped, but it is what we've got. Maybe the wolf can lead us to more mushrooms.

Ludanto: How much is one pack slot worth of mushrooms worth? 1D cash? 2D cash? More?

[Ludanto]

The mushrooms have no commercial value. They're just required to cure this plague, or that's what you were told.

[Rusty Tincanne]

How can something so rare/scarce that is desperately needed to prevent death not have monetary value!?

How did we get convinced to go on this venture, risking life and limb, to procure these mushrooms without compensation? Who gets them once we are back to town? Surely that person is charging for the cure they create. Are we expected.to haggle once back in town?

[Ludanto]

The mushrooms aren't that rare, but there's no market for them, so nobody has any and nobody really knows where they are and they don't have any inherent value.

As for why a plague cure isn't in greater demand, you don't know. You'd have to ask somebody. Maybe it won't actually work. Maybe it only works for one specific, rare kind of plague.

However, there is a standing reward of a bag of silver to whoever can bring back a sufficient quantity to Falko first, so somebody thinks they're worth something there, for the moment at least.

[Marullus]

Is that a sack of silver, or a sack of silver each? It does stretch plausibility that we came on this quest to share a 1D Cash reward among six people; we couldn't even hope to afford to be in Falko long enough to trade the mushrooms in with that.

Are we supposed to be curious about this? I gave it a pass assuming it was a MacGuffin. If it is an actual plot avenue, I can pursue it under Allric's goal. You said originally it was a +1D to creating an Invigorating Draught and Allric can make those himself as an Ob 3 test, so I was dubious that any more skilled Alchemist needed this help that desperately. Should I investigate other properties and this claim, or should we just accept it as the plot contrivance and move forward?

Either way, we can't return to town without finding at least 6D Cash; we need that much just for each 0 Resources party member to attempt the Ob 1 check for upkeep from staying in a bed, before considering other town activities, right?

[Rusty Tincanne]

However, there is a standing reward of a bag of silver to whoever can bring back a sufficient quantity to Falko first, so somebody thinks they're worth something there, for the moment at least

If there is a reward, there is a market.

Who was offering the reward? What is "sufficient"? In TB terms, what is a sack of silver? (1D, 2D, more?) And is it a reward for the first people to bring back a sufficient amount, or is it a standing offer for, "I'll pay a sack of silver for each quantity I need"? Can they be dried or do they need to be fresh? (Drying things often increases potency, decreases space needed to carry them, and could probably be accomplished with a cooking test, with help from scholar and healer.)

It seems this would have been sorted out before we ventured out. TB is brutal regarding cash/resources. If the wolf, who lives there, hasn't seen anything shiny in the place, it seems our treasure will be mushrooms.

[Marullus]

In TB terms, what is a sack of silver? (1D, 2D, more?)

A sack of copper is Pack 2, 1D Cash
A sack of silver is Pack 1, 1D Cash
A sack of gold is Pack 1, 2D Cash

[Ludanto]

The reward, though meager, was what was available. Falko is a remote village. It doesn't have much going on.

These mushrooms do grant a bonus to making that potion, but they're not the only, or even best, way to get that bonus. Plus, they're regional.

Call it a plot device if you like. It's what's going on in the fiction.

The reward is being offered by Laurel, an herbalist in town. She doesn't have much to offer, so she offered a bag of silver. She only needs eight mushrooms, any more would be overkill. You've found 10 mushrooms so far.

Yes, they could be dried (to Pack 1) with an Alchemist test (Cook helps), but you don't want to fail that roll.

As for everything else, what can I say? You were already broke. It's not like you could stay in town forever waiting for easy money.

Also, you've only really explored one location on the map. Who knows what else is out there?

Are you feeling cheated? Is there some expectation that's not being met? I'm really trying to make this fair and challenging. I'm still struggling a bit with the game mode, but I think I'm getting the hang of it. Let me know what you're looking for, and I'll make an effort to correct my course if necessary.

[Marullus]

For the record, I am not feeling cheated. I am surprised we found the right room as our first stop in the house. That creates a conundrum regarding continuing: are the goals met? If we have the MacGuffin, why are we pressing on? We're at a crux in the story where we need more info to make that answer clear, which is why the current (non)scene is drawing out.

Allric wants Antecedents, which includes these mushrooms. He risks being done. He can be driven further by finding additional properties of the mushrooms that he can use personally, and thus we'll seek to find another patch. (If this is viable, I'll do an Alchemist check to explore the properties of one of the two extras.) Or, he can follow clues to other, better magic ingredients if clues appear in the story.

Rabon wants reward. The mushrooms only promise 1D cash for six people and his efforts to get more info through the wolf were stymied so he believes there is literally "nothing shiny" in this place. The base expectation is that we find at least 6D Cash in this venture as a break-even point for coming as a large group. Rabon's goal drives him to get better than that minimum. He needs teasers and clues to give him hope of that.

Thag wants to eliminate Evil in this place. He has decided neither the spider or wolf are evil. The inkling about a darkness behind the double doors is good - that can easily be turned into an exploration driver for him.

Aiofe wants to challenge herself against a worthy foe. She's feeling accomplished with driving off the spider. Not sure if the creepy-evil is further motivating for her. She's the dwarf, though, and finding out awesome dwarven-grudge-history here that inspires her quest to avenge her family is an easy win.

Berry wants to save the innocent. I thought that tidbit about the children would feed right into that! The wolf cutting it off and making it a dead end is disappointing. I am hoping more can come of that.

Galen's stated goal is to map the whole thing -- i.e. see the whole place. He's looking for something more inspirational and also wants to 'confront evil' directly.

What I'd like? If we can get more Intel at this juncture, it let's us conclude session 1 and refocus for session 2. We can get it from the wolf, from Allric searching the desk, Deus ex machina, whatever. Something specifically evil (Thag, Galen) which is responsible for kidnapped children (Berry) and has hoarded the valuables of this place, including cash-treasures and Dwarven knowledge that could aid in retribution (Rabon, Aiofe) would really tailor things to this group and motivate everyone simply.

Any portion of that will also work. I just am hoping for some leads that we can chase because right now we are here for the mushrooms, we found them, and they're worth so little it is hazardous risking anything further without a better reason.

[Rusty Tincanne]

For the record, I am not feeling cheated. I am surprised we found the right room as our first stop in the house. That creates a conundrum regarding continuing: are the goals met? If we have the MacGuffin, why are we pressing on? We're at a crux in the story where we need more info to make that answer clear, which is why the current (non)scene is drawing out.

This! Sorry if I came off feeling... less than happy. As Marullus summarized, we suddenly reached our plot-line goal, but not Rabon's goal of looting this place. Because the wolf dashed his hopes of finding actual treasure/objects d'art, I was trying to figure out what incentive there is for him to continue, hoping if some mushrooms meant 1D treasure, then more mushrooms would translate to even more treasure.

And with a pack of wolves and a giant spider now in the wings as a twist in the story, there is a bit of incentive to get out of here! (Imagine if we tried to dry the mushrooms and failed the test... Perhaps it is a fail test, but instead of ruining the shrooms, the smell of the expertly dried fungi drives the wolves into a frenzy and they decide they no longer recognize Allric as the alpha!? Scary because it would be a conflict with the stakes being we lose our treasure. But I digress...)

[Ludanto]

Why press on? Well, you said it yourself, that you haven't found much in the way of treasure.

As for the wolf, just because you're the "alpha" doesn't mean that he likes you. He might be lying. Or maybe he doesn't equate a locked chest full of gold coins, or a tarnished gold statues as "shiny".

That said, maybe there's nothing else here. Or maybe there's not enough here for a party of six. Or maybe there's plenty of treasure, but you'll never look in the right place, or you'll fail all of your tests to find it. You'll never know until you try.

While I'm a cheerleader for you guys, the setting in Torchbearer does its own thing. It's up to the players to wring a living out of it.

[jhrrsn]

All good discussion thus far here!

I agree that this game is supposed to feel like hard graft, being presented with challenges that are significantly harder to deal with than in a more traditional RPG (& with longer-term impacts). However, personally I feel that the completely 'realistic' approach, where you might just explore some barren ruin for three days with no rewards to be found, isn't conducive to fun play! (I see that you're hinting that might not be the case, Ludanto!).

I was kind of bummed out when we explored the tower and basically found nothing of value, though. It makes sense that a hostile area would be protected from looting, or the prey of the spider could've had carried more than a replacement rope.

If nothing else, loot can be another lever to pull as the PCs dump precious supplies to fill their bags with coin, or try to carry unwieldy valuables out of the dungeon!

Anyway, I'm really enjoying this thus far, despite my own play having a few hiccups. Just finding my feet.