Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

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ClockworkPoltergeist
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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#41 Post by ClockworkPoltergeist »

Rusty Tincanne wrote:Sure thing. I don't have the rules with me though. How do I do that? :oops:
It's in the Quick Start Rules at the bottom of page 5. Here's a link to an online translation. In essence, it's a simple 2d6(DARO)+[Attribute] vs. Target number. DARO=Doubles Add and Roll Over. If your dice roll pulls up doubles of any number, even snake eyes is good, you keep the results and roll your dice again adding all your rolls together. You keep doing that until you stop rolling doubles. Then add in your Attribute score, in this case your character's strength, and compare the whole computation against the saving roll target numbers.
Saving Roll LevelTarget Number
120
225
330
435
540
645
750
855
960
1065
So, use the Dice Roller and roll two d6 separately so you can see if they come up the same. The macro to use is this: Strength Saving Roll (#Strength score#): [1d6] [1d6]. Just replace #Strength score# with the actual attribute number. You can use the Dice Rolling Sandbox to test it out. Starbeard posted some useful macro suggestions over here.

For example I used this assuming an average Strength:

Input: (12)+[1d6]+[1d6]
Output: (12)+[1d6] = 2+[1d6] = 2

It just so happened that I rolled doubles, 2 and 2. So, I get to keep those and roll again:

Input: (12)+[1d6]+[1d6]
Output: (12)+[1d6] = 5+[1d6] = 6

Ok, so no doubles this time. Now we take all four rolls, add them together and then add in our attribute score.

(12)+2+2+5+6=27

Comparing the result to the table above we can see this roll has easily exceeded a L1SR and even a L2SR. The in game results are a success for the action your character was making.

The only bug in the ointment, as it were, is if your dice roll is a 1,2 or a 1,3 it's considered an automatic fumble by 5th ed. rules. All SR's must meet a minimum of 5 before adding in your attribute. dT&T lessened that to a fumble only on a 1,2. Personally, I prefer the dT&T guideline.

*ETA - Sorry, folks, I really have no idea why the [.table] command specifies so much space between it and the text. If anyone has a suggestion to clean up the formatting I'm happy to implement it.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#42 Post by Starbeard »

Excellent explanation Clockwork! It's very useful too, since the Saving Roll mechanic is almost certainly going to be the most common type of roll we'll be making in the game (aside from rolling hit points in combat, of course).

The number needed is always based on the level of the saving roll. The rules and Pulpatoon's cheat sheet both have the table for that, and you can also figure it out in your head using the formula 15 + (Level x 5). However, whenever I be sure to remind everyone of the target number anyway, so looking on the table shouldn't be necessary.
ClockworkPoltergeist wrote:
Starbeard wrote:For those of you who are more familiar with T&T, is there an actual rule in one of the editions that covers 'fighting defensively'?
I'm not familiar with any specifics for such combat. I've quickly scanned my e-copies, dT&T & M6E, and I don't see anything along those lines. I'll check my dead-tree version of 5.5 a bit later when I can get to it. For the moment, your ruling seems fair, though I would hope that, perhaps, mechanically, there was more of a benefit to the character to be defensive, i.e. it made him harder to damage or some such. Just musing off the cuff. Maybe, can only deal spite damage but double armour points while defensive (Of course, for warriors that means four-times the base armour value). In any event, T&T has never concerned itself with game balance or fairness. So, I can live with the current ruling if that's where you'd like to keep it.
I agree, there should be a mechanical benefit. Digsby lost the round this time so it didn't matter, but in future I'd like to come up with something more or less consistent (but not set in stone—I want to keep the flexibility that T&T gives in letting you adjust rules for a given situation as it comes up).

Doubling the warrior bonus seems a bit much to me. I will rule that, in general, if you are in a position to fight purely defensively then you can forego dealing damage in order to add your armour's listed protection value again. That effectively gives wizards and rogues the warrior armour bonus, and the warrior gets bumped up to a x3 bonus.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#43 Post by ClockworkPoltergeist »

Starbeard wrote:Excellent explanation Clockwork! It's very useful too, since the Saving Roll mechanic is almost certainly going to be the most common type of roll we'll be making in the game (aside from rolling hit points in combat, of course).
If it helps, you're welcome to crib the post and add it in over in the house rules to make it easy for everyone to find.
Doubling the warrior bonus seems a bit much to me. I will rule that, in general, if you are in a position to fight purely defensively then you can forego dealing damage in order to add your armour's listed protection value again. That effectively gives wizards and rogues the warrior armour bonus, and the warrior gets bumped up to a x3 bonus.
That certainly seems fair. Are we keeping the idea that the character fighting defensively is still able to inflict spite? If so, we'll need to adjust our macros accordingly to indicate separate d6 rolls.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#44 Post by Starbeard »

Yes, I think Spite will still occur in all combats regardless.

EDIT: Actually, with a total roll of 12 there is only a 1 out of 36 chance that a single 6 was rolled, so I'll just roll to see whether one was a 6 here:

Spite damage (yes on a 1)? [1d36] = 23

In future though, we'll have to make sure that all hit point rolls split the dice up so that we can count Spite for the loser.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#45 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

Khaboom wrote:I think Biddle is rather like that, I'm afraid :) It will probably be his undoing... Now me, I wouldn't start a fire or forget a smaller friend!
If he survives, it will work out well. Doughty is rather naive and optimistic. He won't mind as long as we get some food.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#46 Post by Starbeard »

Khaboom wrote:Not angling for XP but - Ken shifted on this quite a bit, encouraging players to be more creative in dealing with foes instead of just smashing them. What do you think for future encounters?
After reading through the XP sections in all my rulebooks (1e-5.5e and the Quick-Start), I am inclined to agree.

In fact, the whole section on combat experience in 5.5 is pretty intriguing. First it says that if a character "took part and in any way helped the group" during the combat, then that character should get an equal share of experience. It also gets rid of the No Experience if it Runs Away rule, and instead says that if a foe is "clearly conquered after only one or two combat rounds, and manages to escape by running away," it only awards half the usual points. Otherwise, all avenues to victory are worth full points. I'm happy with that.

Then, in true T&T fashion, it gives options on how to figure experience:
T&T 5.5, section 1.9 wrote:"There are several schools of thought as to how these points should be awarded — look over the possibilities, and choose one which seems most suitable to you and those you play the game with; if none of these systems seem appropriate, work out something else that does."
The possibilities include dividing the Monster's MR between the group as APs, and also giving everyone the full MR rating, so that an MR 100 monster would give everyone who participated 100 points.

Because of the slowness of pbp games, and because this is intended as a finite game and not a long campaign, I'm actually inclined to award full experience to all everyone who participates.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#47 Post by Starbeard »

A note on saving rolls and experience points:

The general rule of thumb I'm using is that SRs from tricks, traps, and the usual will net XP, but probably only the first time it's encountered. So the stairs, for example, only provide XP for the player who 'tripped the trap'.

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Re: The Adventure Begins

#48 Post by Starbeard »

Khaboom wrote:How do you want to play it with the Teacher spell? Ken's idea was that the Wizards' Guild frowns on wizards teaching spells to rogues but I'm happy to teach others spells if we're going to be relxed about this - maybe a one-off use is relatively easy to pass on? Often we play that the teacher needs to make an INT SR and the learner one too but at one level higher.
I like this quite a lot. Here's the house rule (I'll have a cull through the collected house rules and move them to the HR thread over the weekend):

The official stance of the Frobozz Magic Construction Company is that it frowns upon members teaching spells to non-members. However, there are a thousand miles of ocean between Frobozz headquarters and this wild and woolly wilderness, and as such adventurers are free to turn a blind eye to policy.
Wizards can teach one spell to a rogue per week. Doing so takes an hour.

To teach a spell, the wizard must first pass an Intelligence Saving Roll at the level of the spell being taught. Failure means that the wizard must wait at least a week before reattempting to teach the rogue a spell.

If the wizard's SR is successful, then the GM secretly rolls an Intelligence SR for the rogue, at one level higher than the spell level. Success indicates that the spell has been learned properly, but failure can be interpreted in a number of ways: either the spell is not learned at all, or the rogue has difficulty casting it (costing extra ST points, or requiring an SR to cast successfully, etc.), or that its effects are altered randomly. The results won't be made known until the rogue actually attempts to cast the spell in practice.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#49 Post by Pulpatoon »

How do scrolls work in T&T? Do they allow a wiz to cast a spell without spending STR, or do they allow a non-Wiz to cast?

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#50 Post by Khaboom »

Up to the GM. A scroll could work either of the ways you mention - or another way that the GM thinks up. The rules are deliberately light to encourage the GM to be creative. :D

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#51 Post by Pulpatoon »

Thanks for the clarification! Skinklob has selfishly snatched up the scrolls, but it may make more sense for them to go to one of the non-casters.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#52 Post by Starbeard »

I've updated the house rules post on magic to include scrolls, as well as how wizards learn spells (my house rule) and the possibility of learning spells that are too high level (taken from the 5.5 rulebook): house rules post
Using Scrolls
Scrolls typically are rendered useless after being used once. A used scroll cannot even be referenced when trying to learn the spell, but it can be referenced when trying to invent an identical spell (see below, "Learning New Spells").

Any character may use a scroll. Using a scroll is essentially the same as casting it from memory, with these exceptions:
  1. Obviously the caster must be able to see and read the scroll aloud.
  2. The scroll's spell is treated as though the character were exactly the same level as the spell level.
  3. Wizard and Rogues do not lose Strength when casting from scrolls, if they already know the spell.
  4. Warriors who cast from a scroll lose twice the Strength cost.

Learning New Spells (Wizards)
The Frobozz Magic Company's arcane library is a far way away, and so all spells must be acquired through adventure. Spells can also be invented after reaching 5th level, or by accident.

A wizard may copy a spell from an unused scroll or a magic tome into his "spellbook" (however that is defined by the player). He will of course need the appropriate materials, but it is assumed that the wizard has brought enough some of these along: five spells may be copied for free, and afterwards more materials must be obtained.

Copying the spell takes a number of days, during which nothing else can be done. The number of days required is equal to the spell level, squared (e.g., a third level spell takes nine days).


Learning Higher Level Spells
Spellcasting types can learn spells that are higher than their current level, as long as any other requirements to cast the spell are be met. Each spell level higher increases the Strength cost by 1. For example, a first-level wizard who learns a third-level spell could cast it for +2 to the Strength cost.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#53 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

I was fooling around in the Die Roller sandbox and don't seem to be able to find a way of rolling 2d6 + attribute value and have it come out added together.

Starbeard, there are a couple-few extra rolls logged for Doughty from this morning - if you ever look to track his rolls, this is why.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#54 Post by Starbeard »

Yeah, I haven't been able to find a clever way of adding them together either. It seems you either have to group all the dice into one code (e.g., "[2d6+17]"), but that doesn't let you know if you rolled doubles; or you roll each one separately ("[1d6] [1d6] +17") and add them up manually.

Trying to combine the two creates weird results: [1d6+1d6] = 4+1000000 = 1000004

I'll open a thread in the technical issues subforum and ask our admin if there's a simple way to add that functionality to the dice roller.

Really busy day today, by the way. I doubt I'll be able to post in the adventure thread until tomorrow.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#55 Post by ClockworkPoltergeist »

If it helps at all, I've been using this as my macro in the dice roller:

(LCK SR): (12)+[1d6]+[1d6]

I can clearly see if I rolled doubles with this. From there, I simply add an equals sign and total everything up when I post it. There's an example of this in my most recent IC post.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#56 Post by Starbeard »

Post is up! My apologies for the delay, I had visitors last week and overestimated myself in being able to post on time.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#57 Post by jiggidy »

Hello, Adventurers!

It looks like I'm joining you mid-adventure. But there's good news!

1) I've played a lot of T&T over the years (all on an actual tabletop)
2) I've logged hundreds of hours into the Zork franchise of games

With that in mind, I look forward to introducing you to the Wizard's Guild's official archaeologist, Garrick.

This old elf has spent the past few hundred years combing the land both above and below ground for art, objects, artifacts, scrolls, books, and other things of historical significance. Some of things are given to the Wizard's Guild for study and display, for which Garrick is handsomely commissioned. Other things stay in Garrick's personal collection, of which he is very proud (and protective).

Garrick is a bit of a bumbling old fool - not too handy in a fight or anywhere that requires much physical ability. He knows all the 1st Level spells but never bothered studying beyond that, because he prefers fieldwork over schoolwork. He's a smart fellow but somewhat singleminded about his pursuits. His luck has saved him a number of times from everything from long falls into deep caverns to just barely finding a light source before being eaten by a grue. In my mind, he's somewhat like Radagast from the Lord of the Rings.

I hope you all enjoy his ridiculous ways and that he adds to your adventure. I have purposely NOT read the story so far, except for the background required reading, because I want Garrick to meet you and learn about you from experiences together.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#58 Post by Pulpatoon »

Folks, with heavy heart, I'm bowing out of the game. The summer has brought some changes to my work-flow, and I'm finding I don't have the mental space for the number of games I'm currently involved in.

I've been enjoying the game, and loving the flavor of T&T in general. It's right up my alley.

Feel free to send Skinklob home, or NPC him, or use him as a meatshield, or what-have you.

Thanks for the good times!

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#59 Post by Starbeard »

Welcome, jiggidy. Garrick will be segued into the action imminently.

Sad to see you go Pulpatoon, but we commiserate. The whims of work schedules are always the bane of gaming. Thanks for playing, and you're always welcome back if you find time again.

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Re: Emu's Waterfront Pub (OOC)

#60 Post by ClockworkPoltergeist »

Welcome, Jiggidy, it sounds like Garrick and Biddle we get along quite well. Ok, I'm worried now... :shock:

Sorry to hear it Pulpatoon, you've done a wonderful job bringing Skinklob to life. I've enjoyed journeying with you. I'm in the busy season at work as well and can understand where you find yourself right now. Here's hoping that when work tapers off you can find a game here or at the Trollbridge that will further your explorations of T&T.

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