2E Rules Online

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dmw71
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2E Rules Online

#1 Post by dmw71 »

I was searching online for a thief-related something for the campaign I am building and stumbled upon what appears to be a legally hosted complete (?) set of the 2E rules online which is free to browse subject to a Use Agreement (copied below). I accept that 2E may not be the edition of choice for many out there, but this is such a wealth of information I couldn't help but share.

PurpleWorm.org
http://www.purpleworm.org/rules/

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By using the following web pages you agree that you will not make copies of this legally purchased (versus licensed) Core Rules CD data (versus a computer program). In addition, you agree to view only a single page at a time. You also acknowledge that the Core Rules material may be copyrighted. You may temporarily borrow access (we lend you free access without compensation) to this Private Non-Profit Archive's Core Rules CD data files at the location of the data (here in the internet, a location we must both explicitly come to communicate and share with each other) in exchange for your compliance with this use agreement. If you do not agree to all of the terms of the use agreement, you do not have permission to use these web pages.

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#2 Post by Stonjuz »

Extemely useful to those of us who have lost their own copy of core rules CDs.
Although I have all these books , right up there, that link certainly speeds pbp up alot.
And they will be of great help when I finally decide to DM that tavern Ive been talking about.

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#3 Post by Vargr1105 »

dmw71 wrote:I accept that 2E may not be the edition of choice for many out there, but this is such a wealth of information I couldn't help but share.
2E is fine by me. The two editions are so similar a few house rules (like mine) can make a game more different than A&D1e and AD&D2nd are between themselves. There's no reason 1E and 2E modules cannot be run with the other edition.

2nd Core is an inferior product in some specific aspects, mostly dealing with reduced choice (the AD&D1e stuff that they bowdlerized out of it to assuage the religious right, the bits they broke on making the transition, like making Illusionists a sub-class of specialized Magic-Users or forgetting about double specialization, Monks and Cavaliers, and rules that were mis-interpreted and changed erroneously in the transition (like Initiative, from what I have heard); but it holds well enough on its own. Hmmm...there's also the issue of lack of published low-level adventures and the munchkinization of some monsters, like dragons. But that's a different matter. Some of what became AD&D2nd staple (like kits) didn't really bring anything new to the game and was more of a crutch to support people without imagination than anything else.

2nd supplements are a different matter. There some really good stuff out there and some really crappy one and a lot of overlapping and just so much of it!. It's a question of having a discening eye. Some are great to use AD&D1e. I used the 2E Greyhawk Players Guide for parts of character generation in our PbP.
Stonjuz wrote:Extemely useful to those of us who have lost their own copy of core rules CDs.
Although I have all these books , right up there, that link certainly speeds pbp up alot.
And they will be of great help when I finally decide to DM that tavern I've been talking about.
Forget that silly tavern and start a real PbP campaign. Go Core 2E purist if you want or go 2.5 with full-blown options. I'll play. :)

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#4 Post by Stonjuz »

Vargr1105 wrote: [Forget that silly tavern and start a real PbP campaign. Go Core 2E purist if you want or go 2.5 with full-blown options. I'll play. :)
The only real reason I haven't started working on it....you (and dmw) have set the bar pretty high.
I'm sure there are some other great GMs here, but I havent checked out any of the others.
I will do it sooner or later.

Would it be possible (or advisable) to create the campaign threads and then recruit players?

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#5 Post by dmw71 »

Stonjuz wrote:Would it be possible (or advisable) to create the campaign threads and then recruit players?
I'm not sure if you need the official game thread created, but there is a certain amount of legwork that can (and dare I say, should) be done before you recruit for your game. What rules will be using? How will characters be generated? Etc... It would be a good idea to have these ideas already typed out in a Word document (or similar) so you can just copy-and-paste them once the actual game thread has been created for you.

---

Speaking for myself, I had been *thinking* about running a game, and had *considered* how I'd like certain aspects of it to be played, but I truly had no idea what I was doing when I posted my recruitment thread. Getting the game up and running from basically nothing was, quite frankly, pretty stressful. I'm still playing catch-up in certain regards, and it's not easy running four different groups and trying to catch up, but the actual DM'ing part is a blast!

If you're going to do it, prepare what you can ahead of time, recruit for the game, then use the time while players are creating their characters to apply the finishing touches so you're ready to go when your players are.
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Re: 2E Rules Online

#6 Post by hedgeknight »

Thanks for the linky link, Dave - love me some 2E! Played the heck out of it when it came out and reluctantly converted to 3E (at the behest of my players at the time). Never used the Player's Option rules though; just didn't need 'em.
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Re: 2E Rules Online

#7 Post by dmw71 »

hedgeknight wrote:Thanks for the linky link, Dave - love me some 2E! Played the heck out of it when it came out and reluctantly converted to 3E (at the behest of my players at the time). Never used the Player's Option rules though; just didn't need 'em.
I never was introduced to 2E back when I used to play, but started to familiarize myself with it a few months ago when I joined a 2E game here on these boards. The more I read about it, the more I like it (at least parts of it).

Glad you like the link. I know I do. ;)
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Re: 2E Rules Online

#8 Post by max_vale »

Personally, I came into D&D right before the switch to 2E and 2E has always been my favorite of the editions. I'm actually quite different than Vagr though; in that many of the things I like about 2E are the Specialist Mages and I never liked some of the more and more options added in supplements like Skills and Powers (which, I guess is what people mean by 2.5?). I also really, really like what they did with the Classes; by making Specialy Priests and dropping what were, in my mind, totally pointless classes from 1st Edition UA (i.e. the Cavalier and the Barbarian) since to me; once actually used in play....the Cavalier was basically nothing more than a Figther if he wasn't on a horse...and in my experience, few adventures had much in the way of meaningful encounters on horseback and the Barbarian advanced at such a SLLLLOOOOOWWWWW rate that it just wasn't worth it. I mean....6,000 xp to hit 2nd....6,000....REALLY? :) To each thier own, though....I despise 3rd Edition and most people I know think of it as thier favorite! :)

I DO agree that Dragons became RIDICULOUSLY powerful in 2E; I always just used Dragons "as is" from 1E; and pumped them up by 2 Hit Dice (i.e. White Dragons are now HD 7-9 vice 5-7) and pretty much made all Dragons able to talk and use Magic. Also; the changing of names like Demons and Devils and Gods to Tanar'ri, Baatezu and Powers was pretty pointless....I never knew anyone who used these terms!

Anyway, as a rare 2nd Edition fan; it's nice to know there's other fans out there! :)

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#9 Post by Alethan »

My fan-dom peeters out at 2E. I cut my teeth on b/e (not so much anything with m/c/i) and played 1E for many years.

There are some aspects of 2E I have come to really like (initiative being one of the most important), but, for the most part, my play preference stops at 1E.
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Re: 2E Rules Online

#10 Post by Vargr1105 »

max_vale wrote:I'm actually quite different than Vagr though
That's Vargr for you, mister. ;)
max_vale wrote:I never liked some of the more and more options added in supplements like Skills and Powers (which, I guess is what people mean by 2.5?).


Yes, but I have never read them. I just meant I'd play Stonjuz's AD&D whether 2nd or 2.5, because I know he likes the later. I dunno, I might dislike it as much you do. :)
max_vale wrote:I also really, really like what they did with the Classes
What do you mean? They did nothing with the classes that could not be done in AD&D1e, and removed several of them. How is less choice a good thing?

Ok, they did create a version of the Bard that was playable from 1st level, but it was broken because it gained magical power at a faster rate that a wizard.

As for not liking Cavaliers or Barbarians that is fine, you don't have to use them. Actually I don't know if I like them either because I have not read their UA writeups. I use the OSRIC Unearthed versions which don't have the problems you are referring to.

As for the Cavalier off the horse being just a Fighter, well...that's the whole point of the class. Knights afoot aren't supposed to be special creatures.
max_vale wrote:Anyway, as a rare 2nd Edition fan; it's nice to know there's other fans out there! :)
Rare? Until 3E came out everyone I knew who was into FRPG was into 2nd Edition, not 1st. No one had even seen a 1st Ed book. I though 2E fans were legion. What happened?

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#11 Post by max_vale »

Sorry....VARGR! I'll do my best to keep it straight! :)


Well, if 2E fans were/are legion; I didn't know them....when I was in HS/College (2E's hey-day); most I knew preferred 1E; and nowadays, most I know prefer 3rd...with some (usually older....no insult meant, I'm 36 myself) STILL prefer 1E.....leaving 2E the lonely red-headed step-child.

Personally, I don't mind 1E and as others have mentioned; the differeances between them are pretty minor. As for some more specific points on some of the differences between 1E and 2E....

I think more options can actually be a bad thing after a while; mainly because many of the choices are really just window dressing and/or because they tend to slow down the game while the DM and/or players involved look up obscure ability X or Y, etc.

For example; I think the Fighter, Ranger and Paladin are all nice and distinct classes with enough difference to make each unique and worthwhile.....(except the Fighter, which I houserule to give some additional minor special abilities to tailor the fighter towards the style the particular Player wants with his character...i.e., if he wants a 'Duelist' type, then perhaps the fighter gets the Ranger special ability to allow Dual-wielding with no penalties as long as light armor is worn, etc., etc.)....and this is equally true in both 1E and 2E.

In 2E, it's some of the minor things for balancing that I like....such as limiting the Ranger to 1d10 HP vice 2d8 at 1st level and the ability to run around in Full Plate at Full Power....I like the 2 weapons in light armor option; as well as limiting the spells choies for both the Ranger and the Paladin to a few select Priest Spheres.

In 1E; while the Barbarian is a fully fleshed-out class; the simple matter of the massive XP needed to gain levels combined with the inability for a Barbarian to associate with magic-users at low-levels, kinda makes the class pointless for most parties. The Cavalier on the other hand has really NO benefits for most situations likely to come up in play with a 'typical' group of adventurers who spend most of thier time in either Dungeons, Wilderness or Town encouters. He MUST spend proficiency slots in the Horseman version of weapons...which without fail are WORSE than thier Footman counterparts; His advancement rate in the begining is incredibly stupid...basically he has to go through 2 levels of 'Pre Level 1' to GET TO LEVEL 1; and as I allready mentioned, most of his abilities require him to be mounted. In comparison to a Regular Fighter....the Refular Fighter (by 1E UA rules) has the much more kickass ability of Weapon Specialization.

I get your point about Knights on Foot being nothing special; but to me.....a Regular Fighter who learned the Riding Proficency and Specialized in Spear or Lance would be a much better choice if going for a Quasi-Historical "Knight" concept. Of course, these classes can be house-ruled.....but I prefer the 'Kit-like' method of just saying...."Okay, you want to play Conan or a Viking Warrior...he's a Fighter with this ability and this caveat". That said, I find many of the Kits as written in the various Class Guidebooks either way too powerful; or completely useless....but I like the idea! :)

Like Alethan, I also MUCH prefer the individual iniative system used in 2E vice 1E; I go one step farther and house rule rolling a d6 vice a d10; mainly because as a DM, I tend to lose track with iniative numbers beyond 15 or so....:)

I also LOVED the splitting of spells into Schools and Spheres and making Specialists in each.....a nice touch, without really having to re-invent the wheel.

I also agree COMPLETELY that the Bard is actually playable in 1st Edition, as opposed to the messed up Fighter/Thief/Druid the class is in 1E.....I'm not sure what you mean by the Bard getting Magical abilities faster than a Mage though? Do you mean the XP advancement rate?

Anyway....everybody always has thier own likes/dislikes from each Edition and I'm sorry to have take this thread way off on a tangent! :)

Thanks for the great link DMW!

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#12 Post by dmw71 »

max_vale wrote:Thanks for the great link DMW!
Glad you like it.

I'm still not completely sold on a few 2E things, but I find (at least outside of character creation) it's a cleaner version of 1E in a lot of respects. I still have much to learn about it, and it'd be helpful to actually play in a 2E game for the experience, but I still maintain I like much of what I've read so far.
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Re: 2E Rules Online

#13 Post by Distorted Humor »

I love 2ed, and there is a metric ton of material for the game, I can't think of any other RPG that has that much stuff published by a single company.

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#14 Post by rredmond »

DMGR2 Castle Builder and 2E Character Generator: http://www.purpleworm.org/content/index.php/tools.html

More purple worm stuff, but worth noting.
This is a game about killing things and taking their stuff so you can become more powerful in order to kill bigger things and take even better stuff.
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Re: 2E Rules Online

#15 Post by GreyWolfVT »

I also know that http://www.padnd.com/index.php is a good resources for AD&D I believe they have both 1e and 2e materials. I have only needed to use the 2e stuff so I have not fully looked around.

To add to this I did take a larger look and they have Basic, Classic and newer edition resources as well for D&D
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Re: 2E Rules Online

#16 Post by rredmond »

There’s a 2E Monstrous Compendium our there too:
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/_contents.php
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This is a game about killing things and taking their stuff so you can become more powerful in order to kill bigger things and take even better stuff.
Alethan: I'm good with NOT pressing our luck this time.
mjulius: That's how I know I'm home.
Pulpatoon: The whole point of PbP is to take the scheduling pressure off the game. We're just chatty because we're so eager!
Scott308: ...everyone should be reminded of just how wonderful the people they play games with here can be in real life.
Leitz: Quality and quantity wise, I think US is the best I've seen.
Paladin: I can promise terror, glory, and riches...or a quick and brutal death.
Inferno: Come on! That's was Vicar's Head, a completely different doomed village!
Rex: I can move to the wait list to let someone else into the game.

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#17 Post by GreyWolfVT »

rredmond wrote:There’s a 2E Monstrous Compendium our there too:
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/_contents.php
—Ron—
TBH I use this often when I am not near my book at home. ;)
“All men did have darkness. Some wore it in the form of horns. Some bore it invisibly as rot in their souls.”
― Paul S. Kemp, Shadowbred
"If good people won’t do the hard things, evil people will always win, because evil people will do anything."
― Paul S. Kemp, Twilight Falling

Algrim Tirion Dwarf - HarnMaser
Dalin Silverhand Dwarf Thief - Barrowmaze
Elwood 'Dug' The Bounty Hunter Dwarf Swashbuckler - Hedge's Adventures in the World of Golarion
Roan Gravelbeard Dwarf Fighter - Hedge's Greyhawk Adventures
Torvik Shadowhood Dwarf Fighter/Thief - Nocturne
DM - GreyWolf's Mystara Adventures - AD&D 2e

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#18 Post by Norjax »

rredmond wrote:There’s a 2E Monstrous Compendium our there too:
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/_contents.php
—Ron—
Thanks for the link!

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#19 Post by Zhym »

dmw71 wrote: USE AGREEMENT
By using the following web pages you agree that you will not make copies of this legally purchased (versus licensed) Core Rules CD data (versus a computer program). In addition, you agree to view only a single page at a time. You also acknowledge that the Core Rules material may be copyrighted. You may temporarily borrow access (we lend you free access without compensation) to this Private Non-Profit Archive's Core Rules CD data files at the location of the data (here in the internet, a location we must both explicitly come to communicate and share with each other) in exchange for your compliance with this use agreement. If you do not agree to all of the terms of the use agreement, you do not have permission to use these web pages.

The first-sale doctrine is a limitation on copyright that was recognized by the Supreme Court of the United States in 1908 (see Bobbs-Merrill Co. v. Straus) and subsequently codified in the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 109. The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell, lend or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained.
As a lawyer with some knowledge of copyright law, I find the language above high-larious.

I'm frankly rather amazed that the site still exists after nearly six years. The only explanation I can fathom is that TSR/WOTC knows about the site but doesn't care about enforcing its copyrights to the 2e books.

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Re: 2E Rules Online

#20 Post by Darithe »

Thank you for pointing out that site! It was most helpful for a game I'm currently playing in.

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