OOC II

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dmw71
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Re: OOC II

#121 Post by dmw71 »

While I didn't have a chance to read Delta's blog post about it (yet), I have decided to go with the simple 100xp per hit die experience point distribution method (the house rule has already been updated).

I did not (and may not for a bit) have a chance to go back and retroactively calculate all the new totals, but I will. As no one is threatening to reach 2nd level yet, I'm not considering this very urgent and is being prioritized accordingly. Just know that it will be updated eventually (in time for the next xp award after your second expedition).
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Re: OOC II

#122 Post by Zhym »

Thanks!

And good luck with the inspection.

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Re: OOC II

#123 Post by dmw71 »

dmw71 wrote:I did not (and may not for a bit) have a chance to go back and retroactively calculate all the new totals, but I will.
I lied.
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I may adjust the xp awards again for magical treasures, but I might not. Either way, the base XP awards each character should have at this point is 432xp.

2,075 + 947 = 3,022 / 7 = 432

That total can/should be adjusted as necessary for any bonuses or penalties, which are already reflected, here. Please update your character sheets accordingly.[/ooc]
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Re: OOC II

#124 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

Far be it from me to argue out of XP, but it seems like magical items are a reward for higher HD monsters. So they are the reward in-and-of-themselves. Why give extra XP for them?

Just interested to know different opinions and the reasoning behind them. Thanks!

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Re: OOC II

#125 Post by dmw71 »

Rusty Tincanne wrote:Far be it from me to argue out of XP, but it seems like magical items are a reward for higher HD monsters. So they are the reward in-and-of-themselves.
This is pretty much my thinking as well, but I'll entertain arguments. If a magical item is sold, I'd have no problem awarding xp for the gold piece total received in payment, but I'm leaning against awarding both a magical item and extra xp for it.
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Re: OOC II

#126 Post by Zhym »

I kind of like including the value of magic items in XP totals. Spread out among the party, the extra points don't seem to break anything and help accelerate leveling in PbP.

I use Keehnelf's West Marches game (RIP :() (and Marullus's game, by extension) and AleBelly's Lone City game as models of good PbP advancement rates. Keehnelf awarded XP for magic items (and magic items weren't terribly scarce). I can't remember if AleBelly awards XP for magic items, but he uses other methods to increase the amount of XP awarded (e.g., periodic RP and posting XP).

The only game I've played in here where leveling was probably too fast was Rukellian's Fabricator of the Planes, but that was because he was awarding the total XP from each encounter to all PCs instead of dividing it. That was just a rules misunderstanding, not a conscious choice. The advancement was probably too fast in terms of what happened in-game, but in terms of time passage, it still wasn't awful.

XP awards and advancement tables are calibrated for tabletop play. You want characters to level fast enough that they get new challenges every few sessions but not so fast that they skip challenges at each level. I'd say PbP advancement should be faster if you're going to have advancement at all. Adding a level every few months seems reasonable to me.

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Re: OOC II

#127 Post by drpete »

I'm familiar with this particular debate, having thought about it for my own game. Obviously, there are arguments on both sides, and im cool with however you would like to handke it.

An argument in favor of giving xp:
Assuming that magic items can be bought & sold freely, imagine that you sell a magic item for 1000 gp, then buy some other magic item with the gold. Should this be worth xp when keeping the original item was not? Is it the process of going through the market that made it count?

In ad&d, they have xp values that are a fraction of the gp value of the items. I think some fraction of the monetray value as xp reward is fair, and probably encourages items to enter circulation rather than get hoarded to sell.

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Re: OOC II

#128 Post by Alethan »

I think in regards to magic items and experience points, the idea of awarding XP would only be for magical items found while adventuring, not items purchased. Getting XP for buying some object in a market goes against the whole reason for the reward, which is "earning experience".
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Re: OOC II

#129 Post by drpete »

Oops, I meant... one magic item xp reward standard is to give xp for magic items found adventuring, then sold, but not used. You can get the benefit of the magic, or the benefit of the gold+xp. If you imagine a magic shop where you come in, sell a magic hammer you found and buy a magic sword, you get the xp for the magic hammer (because you sold it) and the use of the magic sword (because you bought it). Not doing that means you just get a magic hammer but no xp. Seems broken, and suggests something either about buying/selling magic items, or about this (standard) xp rule, no?

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Re: OOC II

#130 Post by dmw71 »

Zhym wrote:I kind of like including the value of magic items in XP totals.
I think I am going to let magical items stand on their own, and not award any additional xp for them. I know they exist in AD&D, but I'm not aware of any xp values for magic items in either BX or LL, and it is not a system I really want to house rule.

That said, I am not opposed to continuing to tinker with xp awards.... or, scrapping xp all together. Instead, I would arbitrarily decide -- based upon what I know exists versus what the party actually accomplished -- when the group would level up. No xp tracking, you would simply level at the appropriate times, after accomplishing enough during exploration to warrant it.

Actually, because there is such a drastic difference in the amount of xp needed to advance between the various classes (e.g. elf vs thief), a better proposal would be to simply award a flat-rate xp total to each survivor at the end of each expedition. So, instead of a specific xp total (e.g. 432xp) for the exact number and type of monsters killed, and the exact number and type of treasure obtained, I would award a flat amount of xp that I feel the results of the expedition warranted.


The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning in favor of trying this flat-rate xp award method, but before deciding, however, what are the general thoughts to this approach?
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Re: OOC II

#131 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

The Black Hack used a method similar to what you crossed off, actually. The GM just sets goals for the party (with the Party knowing it, I believe) and when you do the thing, then you level.

A simple one might be too clear a level of the dungeon, to gain access to the second level, etc. I could look at the rules again to clarify if you're interested.

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Re: OOC II

#132 Post by Zhym »

Keehnelf did something similar, FWIW. Expedition groups received XP every time they encountered something or discovered something.

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Re: OOC II

#133 Post by dmw71 »

Rusty Tincanne wrote:The Black Hack used a method similar to what you crossed off, actually. The GM just sets goals for the party (with the Party knowing it, I believe) and when you do the thing, then you level.

A simple one might be too clear a level of the dungeon, to gain access to the second level, etc. I could look at the rules again to clarify if you're interested.
Well, when an elf needs 4,065xp and a thief only needs 1,251xp, I don't think it's fair to have them always advancing at the same time, which is why I struck that method.

Instead, if I decided to award 1,500xp, the thief would advance and the elf would only be just under half-way there. Considering how many more strengths the elf has a 1st level, that is only fair. By the time the elf has enough xp for 2nd level, a thief will be darn close to 4th. That 2:1 ratio (for those two classes) should, at least in my opinion, be upheld.
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Re: OOC II

#134 Post by dmw71 »

Zhym wrote:Keehnelf did something similar, FWIW. Expedition groups received XP every time they encountered something or discovered something.
That ("every time they encountered something or discovered something") is how I typically award xp, but I am determined to wait until an expedition is completed, or there's a logical breaking point, and awarding a bulk total at that time (but just a total that is arbitrarily determined and not the formal result of a calculation or formula).
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Re: OOC II

#135 Post by Zhym »

Right. I didn't mean to imply that XP was awarded on the spot—just that when the expedition returned to town, the XP award list included line items like "Discovered the Tomb of the Horse King," "Encountered lizard people," etc.

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Re: OOC II

#136 Post by drpete »

This all sounds good to me. I like the idea.

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Re: OOC II

#137 Post by dmw71 »

Apologies for the delay. Yesterday was very eventful, and today is looking crazy busy as well. I will update again later today or tomorrow that you guys can respond to over the weekend.
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Re: OOC II

#138 Post by dmw71 »

dmw71 wrote:Actually, because there is such a drastic difference in the amount of xp needed to advance between the various classes (e.g. elf vs thief), a better proposal would be to simply award a flat-rate xp total to each survivor at the end of each expedition. So, instead of a specific xp total (e.g. 432xp) for the exact number and type of monsters killed, and the exact number and type of treasure obtained, I would award a flat amount of xp that I feel the results of the expedition warranted.
Okay, I think I'm going to do this. So, going forward, I am no longer going to track monsters or treasure from an experience point perspective -- once the group returns from a dungeon dive or other adventure, I will examine their progress and decide upon a flat rate award.


I am awarding everyone that took part (sorry, Hastin) 800 xp for their first expedition into the tree cave. I have updated the 'Experience Points' thread, but please feel free to update your character sheets as well.
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Re: OOC II

#139 Post by dmw71 »

There's a chance I might not be able to update tonight.

I'll try, but it might not be until tomorrow.
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Re: OOC II

#140 Post by AleBelly »

Huge apologies all. I was on vacation for three weeks and thought I'd have time to post. I obviously didn't. If I'm still welcome I'll get back into the swing of things by Thursday at the latest...

Sorry again.

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