EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

Locked
Message
Author
User avatar
Zhym
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 20556
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:14 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#121 Post by Zhym »

Pendleton carefully avoids showing any reaction to Markd's comment.
onlyme wrote:Wait, what? Why wouldn't Bremen take the stand? That sounds like a pure admission of guilt to me...
Constitutional law lecture time. :)

The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides that "no person . . . shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself." Criminal defendants don't have to take the stand if they don't want to. Sometimes defendants do testify, if they think they're sympathetic or want to get their story out. And it happens a lot in TV, because it makes for good drama.

If a defendant doesn't testify, the judge or the jury isn't allowed to hold that against them. The right not to testify against yourself wouldn't mean much if it meant increasing your chances of going to jail.

That's why I asked Marullus whether that right applied in this fictional court. Because if it does, Bremen isn't required to take the stand and Pendleton isn't allowed to make a big deal of it. Unless Bremen tries to sneak backdoor testimony into his questioning of witnesses. :)

BTW, while we're talking law, I'm not sure all this talk about Bandy's actions in the previous expedition and what happened at the fountain would be allowed in a real court. There are rules (which I haven't studied in years and have had no reason to remember since I took the bar exam) about when you can introduce testimony of a witness's prior bad acts to discredit them. The general rule is that you can't, with exceptions. You can ask a witness whether he thinks another witness is honest or whether the other witness has a reputation for truthfulness, but you can't ask if the other witness stole fizzy lifting drinks ten years ago. The reason is to avoid what we see happening here: a trial becoming about bad things the witnesses did instead of what the defendant did.

Of course, I can't even remember those rules without looking them up, and I studied them. There's no reason to expect anyone who isn't a lawyer roleplaying an amateur lawyer (how very meta) to know them. Or for this fictional court to use them.

Any questions, class? ;)

User avatar
onlyme
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 6838
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 12:42 pm
Location: Middle of Carolinas

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#122 Post by onlyme »

What's this amendment thing? Here is good ol' Gaul, I dont see any amendments or constitutions...
Dandelion - female half-orc beautyqueen in training (The Lone City in the Wildlands) OSRIC
Halfpint - female halfling badgirl wannabe (Lab Lord- The North Marches) LL
Mark'd - charismatic human fighter (Lab Lord- The North Marches) LL


User avatar
Zhym
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 20556
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:14 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#123 Post by Zhym »

Like I said:
Zhym wrote:That's why I asked Marullus whether that right applied in this fictional court. Because if it does, Bremen isn't required to take the stand and Pendleton isn't allowed to make a big deal of it.

User avatar
onlyme
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 6838
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 12:42 pm
Location: Middle of Carolinas

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#124 Post by onlyme »

Zhym wrote:Like I said:
Zhym wrote:That's why I asked Marullus whether that right applied in this fictional court. Because if it does, Bremen isn't required to take the stand and Pendleton isn't allowed to make a big deal of it.

He only said he had the right not to take the stand. nothing about having the right not to fry for it...
Dandelion - female half-orc beautyqueen in training (The Lone City in the Wildlands) OSRIC
Halfpint - female halfling badgirl wannabe (Lab Lord- The North Marches) LL
Mark'd - charismatic human fighter (Lab Lord- The North Marches) LL


User avatar
Zhym
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 20556
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:14 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#125 Post by Zhym »

Like I also said: the right not to take the stand doesn't mean much without the right not to fry for it. :)

User avatar
onlyme
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 6838
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 12:42 pm
Location: Middle of Carolinas

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#126 Post by onlyme »

Whose side are you on? Fry him... :)
Dandelion - female half-orc beautyqueen in training (The Lone City in the Wildlands) OSRIC
Halfpint - female halfling badgirl wannabe (Lab Lord- The North Marches) LL
Mark'd - charismatic human fighter (Lab Lord- The North Marches) LL


Rusty Tincanne
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 6178
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:07 am
Location: Ithaca, NY

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#127 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

bumping this forward so it isn't lost in the sea of red text:
Rusty Tincanne wrote:
Marullus wrote:Irving looks confused at Bremen, not answering for a long moment. "I... well, I don't know. Didn't he already explain why?" He looks to Markd, again confused.
Bremen shakes his head with a frown. Sadly, Stancell wouldn't shed much light about the Fountain room, focusing, instead, on the chapel.

But you seem to remember that the Fountain incident is where Stancell decided my soul was compromised. It's what you said. All I am asking is, considering the Voice changed it's accusations of all that horrible stuff once Stancell was no longer alone in the tunnel, is there a chance he decided wrong? That it wasn't me the Voice was speaking about?

Just your opinion, mind you. No need to worry about Stancell. He isn't on trial here.

User avatar
Marullus
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 17898
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:41 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#128 Post by Marullus »

I may yet make Bremen testify. :) I am making rulings here based on what makes the most dramatic storytelling. 8-)

Irving thinks hard. "It was definitely talking to Markd first. It said Markd was responsible for 'him' before Bremen was, I mean you were, drug in unconscious.
I guess I don't know who it was referring to... We'd need to ask Markd. Or Baudh, I guess."

Rusty Tincanne
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 6178
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:07 am
Location: Ithaca, NY

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#129 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

Captain Bremen makes a point of repeating Irving's assertion that the Voice was talking directly to Markd. And that the accusations said Markd was responsible for "him," not "Bremen." With a smile, he dismisses Irving, Thankyou, Mr. Rosemont.

He turns to Keelan, Your Grace, I have no further questions for Mr. Rosemont.

User avatar
Zhym
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 20556
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:14 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#130 Post by Zhym »

Pendleton stands. Here's another witness he wants off the stand soon—but not too soon. Irving said a lot. Too much for either side of this trial to be happy about. Pendleton needs to try once more to get Irving to say what the "Voice of Baudh" said in the chapel. Or he must show the court that Irving, while charming, earnest, and unimpeachably faithful to the church, is not a reliable witness to the facts of this case—that the story in Irving's semi-functioning head bears only a passing resemblance to what actually happened.

He speaks to Irving calmly and softly, with an air genuineness and sincerity that he practiced hard to perfect.

"That was a thrilling account," he says with no trace of irony or mocking in his voice. "So much detail. And being able to recite the exact words the voice of Baudh said to you—that's really impressive." He pauses, and appears to think.

"But weren't you unable to remember just moments ago what the voice in the Chapel of Baudh said?" he asks, as if the question had only just occurred to him. "Doesn't that seem strange? That your recollection of one event would be so vivid and full of detail, and the other...well, not?"

Pendleton waits for the answer, then continues his questioning. He needs to remind Irving of his oath to tell the whole truth—and to whom he swore that oath. But he needs to do it without insinuating that Irving lied at any point. "Mr. Rosemont, when you stepped up to this witness chair you took an oath to Baudh to tell the truth, didn't you? That's no great burden on you; you're an honorable, truthful, and devout man—probably one of the most devout men in this room." Pendleton glances apologetically at the Archbishop. "No disrespect intended to the other faithful of Baudh here assembled."

"So, keeping in mind that you swore to Baudh to tell the whole truth, is it possible that, through no fault of your own, some of the details of the events in the Chapel of Baudh slipped your mind a moment ago? If you could tell the court again what happened there, but with the same amazing detail as you gave in describing what happened near the fountain, it would help us all learn the truth—which is, after all, what we're all here to find out."

Well, most of us, he thinks, looking at Bremen.

User avatar
Marullus
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 17898
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:41 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#131 Post by Marullus »

Irving seems disarmed by Pendleton's niceties, again eager to please. "No, sir. I told both stories. I answered all your questions, did I not? I... Well, I don't understand what leaves you unsatisfied."

Asked to repeat his tale, he does so. . "At long last, we came to the chapel. Ot was the successful end of a harrowing quest, you see. We'd faced many trials in the name of Baudh, and at last the journey was at its end. There was a secret door, long dusty and unused, then a proper antechamber filled with all manner of symbols of Baudh. A consecrated place where we knew the holy relic we were sent for was destined to reside. Beyond was a chapel, tall vaulted columns holding up a domed ceiling. A large seven-pointed Baudhic sun of solid gold -- the same one now hung here -- then hung on the far wall in the central, honored position. A great stone altar filled the far end of the hall, while a few pews stand in the center, blocking the direct path to it. Great iron braziers stoodd in the room corners and near the altar, the flames dancing within them and providing the flickering, ruddy glow to the entire chamber, fires that never went out."

He pauses, gauging response. "It was all over, then. Markd shared my relief, and he visibly sighed at coming to the sanctified chamber. He said 'That most certainly fits the description of what I have been asked to safely deliver to the church. Let's be most careful around it, as it is obviously of great importance,' which I solemnly did. Of course, Markd held his sacred knife, and a good thing, too, since it seemed to help him know things the rest of us didn't and it gave him such confidence, where normally he lacked such on account of, well, you know, his being cursed by the gods."

"Markd crossed the trapped floor without incident, probably that new confidence, but it then collapsed under the weight of Bandy and Bremen, dumping them into a pit trap. Florian and I were left to the rear. It was unfortunate, Bandy knocked unconscious by the fall. Bremen rushed to save him, while I aided Florian as he climbed down to call upon the divine glory of Baudh to again rescue Bandy's life. Once all were safe, we all made our way past the pit and into the chapel, where Markd already was."

"By the time we all got out of the pit, we found Markd on his knees, already supplicant and speaking to the voice of Baudh. He pauses, adding reverence appropriately, that the impact could sink in. "It was no wonder that we were sent to this place, so blessed as to not only hold this relic but to allow such communion. Markd swore on his knees to bring the relic back here, and to restore the congregation of Baudh's faithful to this chapel as well. He gripped his dagger tight, keeping his confidence. The voice complimented Markd's wisdom and he swore to it, that he'd be faithful to Baudh and it spoke of lifting his curse, which seemed a good thing, too."

"The voice explained it was a servant of Baudh, 'bound to serve here for eternity, to provide the immediate aid required by supplicants to this church as time and fate may attest.'" he recalls. "But... then Markd got sad. Markd said, 'Yes, it would be good to restore this and many other bastions of faith. I still think we can bring many followers out here, assuming we take back the evidence they will require to justify their own faith,' which somehow meant that he wasn't going to do it. We all caught up in the room, then, the others done in the pit below, so it started talking to Bremen. It complimented him as a great leader of men, like it said Markd wanted to be, and that he could be Lord Commander of the Knights there if he rebuilt them." He sounds a little envious, pausing to re-gather his thoughts. "Markd said to Bremen, Oh no. You'd be more than qualified for this role, I've no doubt. I have all the confidence in your abilities. And, I imagine the rest of 'em do, too.' Which, of course, we did. So, Bremen swore to restore Baudh's worship at the sacred temple, it allowed us to remove the sacred relic, and we returned here. He'll be quite the Lord Commander, I expect, and we all are glad to have done such a service to the church... the sigil looks quite nice up there on this wall."

He pauses, uncertain. "You wish something else?"

Rusty Tincanne
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 6178
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:07 am
Location: Ithaca, NY

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#132 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

For the record, it was Bremen that saved Bandy by stabilizing him, not Markd.

User avatar
Marullus
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 17898
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:41 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#133 Post by Marullus »

Fixed.

User avatar
Zhym
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 20556
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:14 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#134 Post by Zhym »

Pendleton seems to listen intently as Irving re-tells his story. But inwardly, he thinks about the problems with Irving's testimony—so may opinions and bare conclusions without factual foundation. Like that whole thing about the voice being Baudh's. But he knows better than to go there again. He'll have to rely on the court to know the difference between conclusion, opinion, and observation. But maybe he can make use of Irving's certainty that he heard the voice of his god.

When Irving is done talking, Pendleton nods his head. "If you don't mind, I'd like to explore some of the details of those events, if you remember them."

"You told the court that the voice—either the voice of Baudh himself or a servant of Baudh—complimented Markd's wisdom. That's a pretty heady compliment, isn't it? A person's god says he is wise?" Pendleton turns to look at Markd. "That's some strong character evidence, wouldn't you say?"

"You remembered so many words in detail, including many of the words said by the voice in the chapel. The voice of your god! I would imagine one would want to carve each syllable into granite, to remember them and consider them forever." Pendleton's tone is sympathetic, understanding, and a little awed. "So, do you happen to remember just what the voice promised Bremen—its exact words? And Bremen's exact words? What he asked the voice, his oath? Do you remember if the voice gave Bremen a name he could call it?"

Pendleton waits for the answer, then moves on.

"You said something very interesting a moment ago," he continues. "You said that as you approached the fountain, a voice—the voice of Baudh, as you say—challenged you. 'Absolution is for those contrite before me, accepting of true justice.' 'Justice sees you.' That's what it said?" If Irving has not already remembered that the voice asked to be called "Justice," Pendleton asks, "Does that remind you of anything in the chapel?"

Regardless of the response, Pendleton launches into an ecclesiastical colloquy. "Please forgive me, Mr. Rosemont, but I am not nearly as knowledgeable as you in the ways and teachings of Baudh. Baudh's domains are sun, lightning, strength, gold, and justice, correct?" Pendleton's mien is now that of a student eager to learn. "Are all these things the same as Baudh? Are they aspects of Baudh? Or they more like his servants? If I worship gold, do I worship Baudh? I do not mean that as a joke; as I said, I am not the expert in your faith that you are, so I am curious."

User avatar
Marullus
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 17898
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:41 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#135 Post by Marullus »

Zhym wrote: "You told the court that the voice—either the voice of Baudh himself or a servant of Baudh—complimented Markd's wisdom. That's a pretty heady compliment, isn't it? A person's god says he is wise?" Pendleton turns to look at Markd. "That's some strong character evidence, wouldn't you say?"
Irving brightens up at this obvious conclusion. "Yes, indeed!"
Zhym wrote:"You remembered so many words in detail, including many of the words said by the voice in the chapel. The voice of your god! I would imagine one would want to carve each syllable into granite, to remember them and consider them forever." Pendleton's tone is sympathetic, understanding, and a little awed. "So, do you happen to remember just what the voice promised Bremen—its exact words? And Bremen's exact words? What he asked the voice, his oath? Do you remember if the voice gave Bremen a name he could call it?"
Irving agrees sagely. "It was indeed a potent experience for any humble warrior."

Yes... the voice said, 'You may call me justice -- swear to me, Lord Commander Bremen, and you may freely remove the holy relic you desire from this wall and take it back to your town of Gaul as the proof you desire. I will grant you the power to restore this bastion, to bring new faithful to this chapel under your inspired leadership, and to once again bring justice into this world. You are meant to be a great leader of men, and through this, you shall.' Bremen's oath was likewise similar, within Baudh's edicts. He said, 'I pledge myself to you, so that we can help realize Baudh's goals here in the North. I accept the position as Lord Commander, and I will lead the Knights of Baudhil as we bring justice to the world once more.' I don't recall it ever giving a name, as I said before. It just confirmed itself by the names of Baudh."

Zhym wrote:Pendleton waits for the answer, then moves on.

"You said something very interesting a moment ago," he continues. "You said that as you approached the fountain, a voice—the voice of Baudh, as you say—challenged you. 'Absolution is for those contrite before me, accepting of true justice.' 'Justice sees you.' That's what it said?" If Irving has not already remembered that the voice asked to be called "Justice," Pendleton asks, "Does that remind you of anything in the chapel?"
"You seem very confused about the doctrines of Baudh," Irving says comfortingly to Pendleton. "Justice is Baudh's domain; it is one of the manifold names for addressing the deity in his sanctums. Most tales don't differentiate between what Baudh is and what Baudh does - he is what he is, you see." You recognize he's quoting church school primers used for the youngest and simplest age groups of children.
Zhym wrote:Regardless of the response, Pendleton launches into an ecclesiastical colloquy. "Please forgive me, Mr. Rosemont, but I am not nearly as knowledgeable as you in the ways and teachings of Baudh. Baudh's domains are sun, lightning, strength, gold, and justice, correct?" Pendleton's mien is now that of a student eager to learn. "Are all these things the same as Baudh? Are they aspects of Baudh? Or they more like his servants? If I worship gold, do I worship Baudh? I do not mean that as a joke; as I said, I am not the expert in your faith that you are, so I am curious."
"I would be glad to assist you, sir. Such things are important for all to know, especially if you intend to continue in Baudh's service," he says pedantically. The question, however, clearly stretches Irving's ability to conduct abstract reasoning. He fumbles a short while, then falls back on quoting the primary grade church lessons, "Baudh is Gold and all Gold belongs the Baudh. Every prayer whispered to a coin in the plate is cherished in his ears. Baudh is the sun, and he watches over us every day. Baudh is strong, and strength is a sign of Baudh's favor on those fit to rule in his name. Baudh is justice, and justice must be accepted from the ordained." He smiles kindly at Pendleton to see if he has absorbed the paraphrased lessons.

User avatar
Zhym
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 20556
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:14 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#136 Post by Zhym »

Pendleton smiles inwardly. This is more like it. Corroboration that the voice asked to be called Justice, and a roundabout endorsement of Markd's testimony.
Marullus wrote:"You seem very confused about the doctrines of Baudh," Irving says comfortingly to Pendleton.
"All too true," says Pendleton, shaking his head sadly. Irving clearly is not the witness to discuss the finer points of theological theory, however. "Thank you for your guidance."

Pendleton considers whether to continue questioning Irving. His testimony about Bandy trying to sneak away with the party's mounts was damaging, but the person to ask about that is Bandy. There is still one thing to make clear about the scene at the portcullis, however.

"One last question, if I may, and then you're free to step down. You said that when you were at the portcullis on the way to the Fountain of Healing, the voice of Baudh spoke to you, reciting all your sins, and forbidding you entry. Enemies were at your back. And that's when Stancell swore to bring Bremen to justice." Pendleton pauses to reflect on the ironic choice of words—they did indeed find themselves before Justice, but much sooner than they expected. "But it was when Stancell said he was sorry that the portcullis opened?"

User avatar
Marullus
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 17898
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:41 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#137 Post by Marullus »

Irving thinks on this hard for a moment. "Yes, yes I would say it was so. When Markd said he was sorry, the way was opened."

User avatar
Zhym
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 20556
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:14 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#138 Post by Zhym »

"Thank you," says Pendleton. "You have been very helpful."

"I have no further questions for this witness, your Grace. With Your Grace's permission, I would like to recall Bandy Sandybanks to the stand."

Unless this is bad timing for Alethan, in which case Pendleton can call Florin now and bring Bandy back up later.

User avatar
Marullus
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 17898
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:41 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#139 Post by Marullus »

Crowd checks (15): Pendleton [4d6] = 14 Bremen [4d6] = 14

Irving's simpleness and credulity remain a favorite with the crowd. Pendleton is able to recover in his interaction and both parties score victories, with main points bolstered by the would-be knight.

(Bandy?)

User avatar
Zhym
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 20556
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:14 am

Re: EVENT: The Trial of Bremen - 19 June 2021

#140 Post by Zhym »

We can leave Bandy for later.

Pendleton calls Florin to the stand. The ad hoc lawyer refrains from rhetorical flourishes, asking simply for the group's retainer to explain what happened as the party approached the fountain and reached the chapel of Baudh.

Locked

Return to “History - Completed Expeditions”