OOC Chatter I

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Rusty Tincanne
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Re: OOC Chatter I

#701 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

Zhym wrote:How hard can it be to write up "everyone dies at the hands of demons and goblins" in the demon hole? ;)

Or, you could just stop throwing so many monsters at us. Try leaving big piles of unguarded loot instead. We have to do our own accounting on that. Saves lots of time for the DM.
Seconded! :)

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#702 Post by DavetheLost »

No worries. I thought there were more of us on the Fingers expedition who had yet to weigh in with actions. Life happens.
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Re: OOC Chatter I

#703 Post by Marullus »

Zhym wrote:Or, you could just stop throwing so many monsters at us. Try leaving big piles of unguarded loot instead. We have to do our own accounting on that. Saves lots of time for the DM.
That was actually my ORIGINAL plan. You DID find two rooms with nothing but unguarded treasure, so far. 8-)

But the mushrooms, man. You keep triggering mushrooms!
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I can't even keep up with how many monsters you've drawn to the front of the dungeon!

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#704 Post by Zhym »

Dude. I'm not sure which PC is going to do it, but my next quest is going to find whoever has been breeding all those damned screaming mushrooms and punch them right in the nose.

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#705 Post by Alethan »

And how many rounds did people let them just shriek away?

*shakes head*
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Re: OOC Chatter I

#706 Post by Zhym »

Well, BtB, it doesn't do much good to try to kill them. On their own, they stop shrieking in 1-3 rounds. They have 3 HD, so average about 12-13 HP each. Which means that by the time you kill them in a couple of rounds or three, they'll have shut up on their own.

The trouble is how many of them there are. One is an annoyance. An infestation throughout a dungeon is a great way to set up a TPK.

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#707 Post by Marullus »

I think I've liberally sprinkled updates everywhere - if I missed a thread somewhere that you expected a response on, please bump it.

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#708 Post by Zhym »

Rusty Tincanne wrote:So.... He has clothes and a saddled horse. Not the best preparation for heading into the wilderness. Anyone want to start an expedition called "Bringing Bremen his things"?
Well, he made so many friends, I'm sure it won't be a problem. :D

So, I'm wondering: where's the Archduke Gaul in all this? When did a church get the authority to put a man on trial, let alone sentence him to death? Even if someone is a follower of a particular god, you'd think the worst they could do is excommunicate someone. Why would the Archduke allow what looks like a major usurpation of his sovereignty? Is Gaul really a (not-so) secret theocracy?

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#709 Post by onlyme »

More importantly, what have them the right to steal knives and rubrics cubes
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Re: OOC Chatter I

#710 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

Zhym wrote:Well, he made so many friends, I'm sure it won't be a problem. :D
He's actually fairly charismatic, per his stats. It's me that's the jerk, apparently... :oops: I wanted him to be a bit petty and prideful, but it came off rather strong. Fortunately, NPC's use dice to determine their affinity towards PCs.

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#711 Post by Marullus »

onlyme wrote:More importantly, what have them the right to steal knives and rubrics cubes
Didn't you intentionally donate the cube?
Zhym wrote:So, I'm wondering: where's the Archduke Gaul in all this? When did a church get the authority to put a man on trial, let alone sentence him to death? Even if someone is a follower of a particular god, you'd think the worst they could do is excommunicate someone. Why would the Archduke allow what looks like a major usurpation of his sovereignty? Is Gaul really a (not-so) secret theocracy?
So, this is a world where clerics have visible power and where people see the works of Gods manifest on a regular basis. When the Gods are that real and present, people pay them more attention.

The Archduke (and all nobility in the south, really) rule through Divine Right, as granted by a mutually beneficial relationship with the Church of Baudh. So, the ArchBishop and the Second Estate are quite potent in the current relationship with the Archduke. Gaul is a little different in that there's relatively few members of the First Estate here... a small circle of "nobility" around the ArchDuke himself. The rural component follows Gwanwen, so their support can't be overlooked, either.

Presumably the ArchDuke could step in and countermand an action like this by the ArchBishop. Nobody has appealed for him to do so, however, and Bremen isn't important to the ArchDuke at this stage, to merit the ArchDuke stepping in without being asked. Few adventurers have invested in that kind of relationship with the ArchDuke or his people. (Mostly Foxy, but she has failed every roll and now gets fed to the dragon. :) )

I'm trying to have this governed by PC actions. Markd's actions tipped the scales dramatically. I'm waiting to see how PCs fix it, or if they let the actions run their course.

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#712 Post by Marullus »

Marullus wrote:
Zhym wrote:That does seem rather unfair, and more than a small dent in "the town is not the adventure."
I am discussing the knife in private with Onlyme.

I do want to address this, though -- EVENT threads are how adventure happens in town; the compromise for where town and adventure intersect. You can earn XP, have consequences, and even die in events, just as expeditions. I apologise if that wasn't clear.

Marullus wrote:Thank you all for being part of this grand sandbox adventure. :)

As you tackle bigger challenges, a mid-level game allows you to bring home more coin and have greater impact on the developing civilization you are in. What are you building in the gameworld? Are you a magic user that needs a place to do magical research? When you reach 9th level, will you have a place to attract followers to? If you meet your end, will you be remembered?

The gameworld is getting bigger. As you homestead outwards, you create new centers of play. (See Beith's Watch, Frogmorton Ford, Idmi d’dum, and the soon-coming White Tower) You can have PCs that operate out of these locations as well as in Gaul, expanding the map and discovering more. You can have multiple PCs, participating in multiple avenues.
As we transition into a mid-level game, "the town is not the adventure" transitions slightly - you're creating new towns. You're creating political situations between your towns, and PC-driven interplay which drives the sandbox gameworld's development. While "adventuring in town" is still not a thing, having PC-driven Events which impact a town or across towns is completely viable.

For example - Bremen is about to flee to the White Tower, which will populate with followers. Other PCs have talked about establishing a mage tower as a sanctuary for those willing to join their order. The events of this thread will change the dynamic between certain classes in the town of Gaul itself. These things are okay, and exciting. I'll open Event threads for major game events that are inter-town or intra-town when necessary. It is a sandbox. Bring your toys and keep doing things to have fun. :D
I do want to pull this out for some explicit conversation.

I announced a shift towards mid-level gameplay (level 5-6). I see the higher level PCs in the game being at a stage where they aren't just reacting to the game world, but being able to shape it, laying the foundation for when most of you get followers and establish strongholds at level 9. I am excited to see what enterprises and beliefs you weave into the gameworld during this phase, what things you bring into play that will cause new challenges to yourself and others.

I didn't ask, however. What are YOU all thinking about that?

Zhym brought up a good point -- when you all begin making settlements and strongholds, it changes the "town is not the story" aspect. There's still plenty of world to explore and I thought this added it it... but are you seeing this as a detraction? Do you NOT want to engage in the mid-level play I've described?

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#713 Post by Zhym »

Just to be clear—I have no objection to players shaping the game world, establishing strongholds, etc. Through that process, factions and rivalries may develop. But I rather like that Gaul is a "home base" or "safe zone" where everyone can gather (and drink, and shop, and exchange gold for coin) regardless of faction.

When I think of "the town is not the story," I think about Gaul. Not the additional settlements built around it, or the structures built or conquered by PCs. Those are fair game. But everyone should be able to go to Hyde's. :)

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#714 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

I've never gotten any character to that kind of level, so it's daunting. My gut tells me to shy away from it, but knowing that it is part of the game, I'm trying to embrace it a bit, feeling the process out as I go.

One thing that worries me is how to continue to adventure when your character is supposed to be managing their estate/project, etc. But now that Clay hired another druid to manage the meeting house, it seems doable. He is free to go about his (second) life, meet a nice badger-lady, dig a nice tunnel, have a litter and see them grow old and trapped for their pelts. Good stuff. :P

I highly recommend establishing something for your characters! Even if it is just another tavern or something.

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#715 Post by onlyme »

I have problems with the simultaneous events having effects beyond flair and color. As I mentioned in a previous post, losing the magical item in the event would have altered my PC's decisions before his current adventure, between where to go and what supplies he needs/doesnt need. Had Bremen gone off on an adventure, he could have run into himself. :)

Having the idea of a private farm/stronghold/etc is great. I have always wanted to be in a game that lasted long enough to do it. I also think it (and events in general) adds new hooks for future adventures and it adds flavor in general. But, I think it needs to be kept rather structured to prevent the above anachronism/paradox type issues.
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Re: OOC Chatter I

#716 Post by Zhym »

Onlyme, did you have any idea before Markd handed the knife over that the Archbishop might keep it? If not, that's another issue. Players should know when a choice has (potentially major!) game-world consequences and isn't just RP flavor.

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#717 Post by onlyme »

Since the cube was taken and not given back, then yes. It was something I feared would happen from the start of the trial, especially once he took the cube.
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Re: OOC Chatter I

#718 Post by Marullus »

We have a misunderstanding about the cube. Your private message said you intended to give it to the Archbishop for safekeeping. (Donating to the church is a standard way of converting undesired magic items to XP, selling to Pierpont is a standard way of converting undesired magic items to cash.) If you didn't intend for him to keep it, I can have him give it back and retract the XP.

Markd was deliberate for IC reasons in not allowing others to handle the knife. The point at which he allowed someone else (PC or NPC) to do so was a known "big deal." Who he chose to allow to handle it also has an impact.

So, that was my principle here: I saw it as a PC Action which causes change in the dynamics of the gameworld. In this case, a change which makes things less safe for some and creates a new challenge to be overcome. I understand, however, that this came across as not much of a choice for poor Markd/Onlyme. I'm working that out in private.

The main issue that I see for discussion here, though, is about the player-GM compact on this gameworld and the game's theme. We began the game with low-level PCs with a safe-town. We're transitioning to a mid-level game where PCs have more influence over the world, and I have assumed that includes the ability to impact the nature of the town. I appreciate this question being raised. I want this to be a game where you're having fun, and if this change in the OOC compact makes it not fun, I'd rather redact a bit to fix that. I see two options for you to choose between:

1) Town is safe and "town is not the adventure." Gaul remains sacrosanct as a place that all PCs can go and act. This also means that, as GM, I deny all efforts by PC actions to alter the nature of Gaul. All town officials in Gaul are wise enough to avoid the impact of all game-changing items or events. The protective barrier that the Sigil puts over the town is now an iron-clad thing and no evil or infernal can enter into the town walls. I allow no plotlines about the potential swaying, corruption, or fall of the ArchDuke or any other officials. Players generate outlying locations and can drive actions and story about outlying locations, but Gaul is the tavern, the store, and good, uncorruptable people.

2) As other locations begin emerging, Gaul as a central town is less important. Character actions can change their relationship with the town or any of its component organizations. Actions for or against groups in town can change their power levels, impacting the relative influence of their chosen groups and thus other PCs. Different PCs will spread out their basing to different town-sites in the game map, with different effects for their PCs and the gameworld. We already can base out of Beith's Watch, Frogmorton Ford, Idmi d’dum, and soon the White Tower.

There are merits and challenges to both, and I'm fine with either. I didn't realize there was consternation and I'm willing to go with the majority. If it helps, I'll post it as a poll for you to vote as players.

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Re: OOC Chatter I

#719 Post by Alethan »

On one hand, I like the idea of a "safe" place where everyone knows your name.

On the other hand... I like the idea of the world changing according to how you portray your character(s). Actions have consequences and all that.

I'm likely to lean towards the latter. Makes it a bit more like reality television, then, doesn't it? You get to watch people shoot themselves in the foot (with bow and arrow, in this case). But then I also don't even have TV at my house because I can't stand reality shows, so there is that.

Still... I like a world that adjusts according to how your role-play (and, apparently, how the roll-play goes).
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Re: OOC Chatter I

#720 Post by Spearmint »

I think you start off with the town being a safe place but as you interact with NPC characters, you are obviously going to develop some plot lines and 'the story thickens' so to speak. I am fine with Bishop Baudh going to pot as a player in the game. Just as much as the coming of the dragon may affect the town, burning bits down .... hmmm the price of good planks will go up, must get the loggers out.

Bremen had bit of an easy getaway though, was rather looking forward to a nice bonfire party. Who is up to form a posse?

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