OOC Chatter - Pre-Launch Discussion

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Zhym
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Re: OOC Chatter - Pre-Launch Discussion

#81 Post by Zhym »

AleBelly wrote:I don't think there's a good shortcut, so my approach is to build a probability tree. It's pretty easy in Excel. You just have to tabulate the number of all possible rolls that could lead to a given value - you start low (4d6) and build from there using copy and paste. For instance, start with 3d6. Have a cell for each of the possible outcomes (3-18), and to the right of it the number of possible roll outcomes that could produce that number (obviously only one for 3 (1-1-1), but there are 3 possibilities for rolling of 4, 2-1-1, 1-2-1, 1-1-2). You can complete 4d6 by...ah, hell. I'm just going to send the file. You can figure it out...
Oh, yeah, that makes sense. To find the number of ways of rolling N d6 and getting X, you just add up the ways of rolling N-1 d6 to get X-1 to X-6.

Looking at the stats in that spreadsheet, if I were designing a crummy-stats bonus I'd base it off of total bonuses or something else based on the actual attributes. Rolling 18d6 results in a pretty tight probability curve: 90% of all characters are going to be in the 51-75 range. A character with the median 63 total points could be really interesting or incredibly boring. A PC with stats 18 13 13 9 6 4 could be hella fun to play, for example, but I'd re-roll 12 11 11 10 10 9 in a heartbeat (okay, maybe I'd name the character "Mediocre Fred" and run with it). The former has a total bonus of +2 or +3 depending on whether the 4 goes into charisma (which is the coward's way out!); the latter has no bonus at all.

That's not to suggest any changes, BTW. Getting the game rolling is more important than optimizing a weak-character bonus.

As for clerics—I have to confess (at the risk of being "that guy," which I realize I already am) that I'd like to have an option that has neither the benefits nor requirements of the religions that Marullus has outlined. One of the things I love about OD&D or LL is how quickly you can get a PC up and delving. Using the equivalent of 2e's "priests of specific mythos" adds some awesome flavor, but it also means that a cleric is more complex to create and play than other classes. So I'd kind of like it if a cleric has the option to worship a god that doesn't give any special benefits but doesn't ask for anything special in return. Call the god Apathos, the god of indifference.

As for Smurfgrill...well, that's largely irrelevant because I'll probably roll up a new PC, but Keehnelf drew it up with a really interesting mix of benefits and drawbacks. Here's the description:
Symurgwyl ('Heart's Nest')

'It will not strike at the innocent, and should not be used to hunt the beasts of the wild lest its will falter and it crumble into dust.'

The bow is a masterwork longbow that will offer +1 to hit and +2 damage on all attacks except against non-hostile animals or people of good character. However, to use the bow requires a strength of 16 or higher and if the wielder is not at least 6'6' tall, they suffer a -2 penalty to hit instead of the +1 bonus.
That's what Lug got when he went looking for a bow that would let him add his strength bonus to damage. It's literally a quest item since Lug had to go on a quest to get it. And in Keeping with Keehnelf's idea of having items that would survive their possessors and gain legends of their own, the bow is both uniquely suited to Lug and usable by (some) other characters. So not only is it a really cool and storied item, but it also encapsulates some of Keehnelf's unique touch in that game.

All of which is by way of saying that I have no idea how he came up with 4,002 xp for that bow, what with the combination of powers and limitations.

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Re: OOC Chatter - Pre-Launch Discussion

#82 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

Zhym wrote:...So I'd kind of like it if a cleric has the option to worship a god that doesn't give any special benefits but doesn't ask for anything special in return. Call the god Apathos, the god of indifference.
The character I had started in Keehnelf's game was supposed to become a druid of sorts, believing that nature is truly neutral, accepting of all life and death as a matter of fact. He was not planning to act violently unless he thought that the balance of good v evil was at stake, and he would take either side. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Maybe have to take a bath every once in a while as a "sacrifice" but not much else.
Your idea reminded me of that, though I don't think you were suggesting a druidic order...

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Zhym
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Re: OOC Chatter - Pre-Launch Discussion

#83 Post by Zhym »

Oh, hey—are you planning to set up private forums for each of us? I'm wondering if I should wait for those to talk about specific character-creation ideas or use PMs.

ETA: I've decided to roll up a new character. He may be very short-lived (but, hey, that's what I thought about Lug). One question: house rules make Intelligence and Wisdom important for MUs and clerics, respectively. Will thieves get any benefit from high dexterity (other than the bonuses everyone gets)?

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Marullus
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Re: OOC Chatter - Pre-Launch Discussion

#84 Post by Marullus »

Zhym wrote: So I'd kind of like it if a cleric has the option to worship a god that doesn't give any special benefits but doesn't ask for anything special in return. Call the god Apathos, the god of indifference.
The foundational premise of LL, the very first words of the Cleric class description, say "Humans who become clerics have pledged their lives to serve a deity. To this end, they conduct their lives in a way to further the desires and will of their gods or goddesses."

All Gods grant benefits - spells and turning ability notably among them. All clerics subjugate their will to a deity, and all deities have desires for the cleric to further. It is what differentiates a cleric from a pious fighter.

I'm happy to grant latitude in what kind of God the players want to serve. I provide the initial three as a quick-start option for clerics that want to roll-up and hop-in. I'm open to the proposing of new Gods and Goddesses in the pantheon (including their tenets and taboos), but I am against the "blank check" option. I strive to spur roleplay through hard decisions for all characters.
Rusty Tincanne wrote:The character I had started in Keehnelf's game was supposed to become a druid of sorts, believing that nature is truly neutral, accepting of all life and death as a matter of fact. He was not planning to act violently unless he thought that the balance of good v evil was at stake, and he would take either side. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Maybe have to take a bath every once in a while as a "sacrifice" but not much else. Your idea reminded me of that, though I don't think you were suggesting a druidic order...
That's a cool idea to develop. You could easily fit a druid-type under the "significant regional differences" of Gwanwen. I can also see how you'd differentiate from that God as a distinctly different faith, if you desired.

Perhaps it is a non-anthropomorphic deity simply called "the Mother" which represents the raw Laws of Nature. A True Neutral deity unconcerned with Man (as opposed to Gwanwen's Neutral Good concern for rural human society) would be interesting to see developed (and understandably under-represented in the faith structure of Men, who want to be concerned about).

There are tenets and taboos inherent in what you describe, and you could easily define them. If you aren't sure about a taboo, ask yourself how the God feels about healing. In your case, I'd suggest that a true-neutral approach requires strict duality. Whatever your beliefs are about violent acts are mirrored in his beliefs about healing as well. If "all life and death is a matter of fact" then saving someone from death is as severe as taking a life. Something to consider.

I'm glad to see a proposal if that's the direction you want to go.
Zhym wrote:Oh, hey—are you planning to set up private forums for each of us? I'm wondering if I should wait for those to talk about specific character-creation ideas or use PMs.
Character concepts can be discussed by PM.

I haven't decided on private forums and invite player opinions on them. It is extra overhead to have them all created by the administrator, but it keeps things more organized. I am loathe to have any record of IC action in PMs, where they'll be buried and lost. My preference is to keep all roleplay open, as we are authoring a shared story here as players - I am concerned about privacy for the sake of secrecy. I'm not sure how well that preference intersects with this sandbox style, however.

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KingOfCowards
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Re: OOC Chatter - Pre-Launch Discussion

#85 Post by KingOfCowards »

I prefer private forums to be used only when needed. If a character is going off on their own, and they want to keep things secret - A private forum makes sense. A character going off on a solo adventure can be done in a public forum in most cases (I am thinking solo romps like Crivit and Lars in this case, as opposed to Orrin and Lug's own adventures to get back home).

I personally don't see a need for every character to have their own private forum, but maybe that's just me. If this campaign turns into secrets and backstabbing (not my preferred play-style), then who knows?

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Zhym
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Re: OOC Chatter - Pre-Launch Discussion

#86 Post by Zhym »

I've found the private forums to be really useful in the games that have them, especially when character sheets aren't public. They take the place of PMs, which are a pain by comparison. I added them to my Ravenloft game after far too many occasions on which I tried to find the PM where I ruled on a question at character creation that came up later. It's far easier to just look at the private character thread. There's some administrative overhead in setting them up, but life is so much easier as a DM once you have them, IMO.

For game play purposes, I think it really added to Orrin's story (and Lug's) that no one had any idea whether he was still alive until he got back to town. That's the kind of thing you can only do with a private forum.

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Re: OOC Chatter - Pre-Launch Discussion

#87 Post by onlyme »

The only information that I find useful being private is the Vital Records category...
Ability scores/Class
HP left
Inventory in backpack unless the PC tells all what he has in there.

I don't think the action roll privacy matters.
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Rusty Tincanne
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Re: OOC Chatter - Pre-Launch Discussion

#88 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

Marullus wrote:That's a cool idea to develop.... If "all life and death is a matter of fact" then saving someone from death is as severe as taking a life. Something to consider.

I'm glad to see a proposal if that's the direction you want to go.
Why you always gotta go thinking about things and making them all complicated!? :lol: Truthfully, I had thought about doing something different, feeling that the character had somehow brought bad luck to KE's game. But the way you framed it makes the concept intriguing again. Playing out the group dynamics of a someone that could almost be indifferent to the very lives of the rest of his company... Hmmm.

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Re: OOC Chatter - Pre-Launch Discussion

#89 Post by Marullus »

Okay, character creation is now official. Go ahead and roll and PM me accordingly.

I will create private forums. I'll wait to do so until a player has a character is officially on an expedition, though, as a general rule. They need to all go to Tonixx for creation and we must be kind.

Thank you all for your input! I'm glad you're excited and look forward to writing exiting stories with you. :) I'll lock this thread and open a new one for the game opening. :)

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