Stuff I've learned about running games

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thirdkingdom
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Stuff I've learned about running games

#1 Post by thirdkingdom »

I will share here what I have learned -- through trial and error and watching other DMs -- about running pbp games. Everyone has different styles of running games, and different standards. Hopefully, what I will share here will be applicable to a wide range of DMs. I'll be posting my thoughts a few at a time, both because I'm fairly busy but to also give people a chance to respond with questions or thoughts of their own.

The first and probably most important thing I learned is to be very clear about posting requirements for both you as a DM and for players. Posting is something you want to become a habit, and the best way to make it become a habit for both players and DM is to be consistent.

I like a fast-paced game, so I typically require that players post a minimum of once per day. I am also self-employed and have a smartphone I can use to update from, so I've got the ability to post in response directly to queries or statements; other DMs will make a single post at a certain time that addresses all prior issues that have been raised.

Make this posting frequency very clear to your players; it is as frustrating for people expecting a fast-paced game to be in a slower game as it is for people expecting a slower-paced game to have a bunch of stuff happening around them.

I have found that the ideal frequency for posting is once every one or two days. Any slower than that and I feel that people will start to lose interest. Not that this happens all the time, but it increases the tendency for people to drop out.

Do not be afraid, as a DM, to poke and nag people. I have no problem, if I haven't heard from either everyone or specific people, to make a post saying "Guys"? Or, "what do you want to do now?" Part of your job as a DM is to keep everything moving as smoothly as possible.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#2 Post by Alethan »

Great start, thirdkingdom!

Anyone else with advice, even if it is just one or two bits of information, should feel free to chime in, as well!
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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#3 Post by thirdkingdom »

Play by post is, by its nature, slow, and I have learned to do everything I can to keep it from slowing down even more. One of the things I do, that goes hand in hand with the topic of post frequency, is to try and limit the number of situations that pivot upon the actions of one player. Oftentimes such instances are not an issue, but I have found that more often than one would think that pivotal player ends up being sick, or losing internet access, or somehow responds more slowly than usual to slow actions of the entire party down. I suggest the following steps to eliminate such things:

1)I limit the number of traps present, and let everyone know this. I do use traps, but infrequently. This saves the sort of paranoia that can really slow things down.

2)I try and institute standard operation procedures. For instance, whenever the party comes to a door we've already established that the thief's first actions are going to be to listen and check for traps. That way, I can go ahead and, in the same post I describe coming to the door, roll* for those chances and include the results in that description.

3)Along with #2, I try and make it an explicit understanding that unless otherwise stated, a PC will share all relevant information with the rest of the party. Let's say a thief is scouting ahead and sees a bunch of gribblies in the room ahead, preparing to ambush the party. Assuming the thief isn't detected, the rest of the party can go ahead and react to that information without having to wait for the player of the thief describe it IC. Oftentimes a player will go ahead and retcon that information, anyway, after others have posted, but it makes things move more slowly assuming public knowledge.

4)I run games based on majority rules. When a situation emerges requiring a decision, all my players know to state their preferences as clearly as possible. The first option that receives majority support wins, and I'll go ahead and post from there. This obviously means that frequent posters have more of a say, but that is rarely an issue.

5)I ask that every post impart some information. If you're only going to post once a day, you better be sure that each of your posts does something to advance gameplay. I cannot stand when a player posts something to the effect of "I support whatever the group decided to do." That, I feel, is understood. It does nothing to help play move along.

*I make all rolls during play, including character creation. More on this later.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#4 Post by Rukellian »

*takes out paper and pencil, starts to scribble down notes...* Good stuff! Thank you thirdkingdom.
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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#5 Post by AQuebman »

One suggestion that I have found seems to work that goes along with some of your above posts is I let my players know what is going to happen if they go radio silent beyond the posting requirement. Usually in my campaign if it's combat their character stands there in fear and does nothing or they effectively are just written out without explanation one way or the other.

This helps to enforce the need for players to stick to your posting requirement but also allows you some wiggle room if somebody bails for any number of reasons and your mid dungeon. Sometimes realism may have to be dropped so that the rest of the game can be pushed forward and kept fun for all involved.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#6 Post by thirdkingdom »

AQuebman wrote:One suggestion that I have found seems to work that goes along with some of your above posts is I let my players know what is going to happen if they go radio silent beyond the posting requirement. Usually in my campaign if it's combat their character stands there in fear and does nothing or they effectively are just written out without explanation one way or the other.

This helps to enforce the need for players to stick to your posting requirement but also allows you some wiggle room if somebody bails for any number of reasons and your mid dungeon. Sometimes realism may have to be dropped so that the rest of the game can be pushed forward and kept fun for all involved.
Yeah, so this touches on the next post I was going to make. The guys I learned from had a formalized version of this they called Lost in the Dark, mostly because if a player went silent in a dungeon it was assumed his character just sort of wandered away. Got Lost in the Dark.

I am not a big fan of GMPCing (playing a PC while the PC is absent). I will do so if the player lets me know, for instant, he will be absent for a couple of days and please puppet his character. Or, if it is in the middle of combat and not much has changed from one round to the next. But I'm not going to take over a PC.

And that is where Lost in the Dark comes from. If I don't hear from a player for a couple of days, and there is no response to PMs or posts, their character just kind of fades into the background. If the player re-emerges later I will typically allow her to jump back in -- without any XP that the rest of the party may have gained during that time.

Because hey, sometimes real life happens and you're unable to post for a while.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#7 Post by thirdkingdom »

I roll all dice in the game, including for character creation. This is just something I learned from the people I first started to play with online; I noticed that the best games -- the ones with the highest post count, the most interesting plots and the most active -- all had that in common. Not that a game can't be great, or have a high post count or whatever if everyone rolls their own dice. But that was a common factor of the games I observed.

Besides eliminating cheating I think that having the DM make all the dice rolling does two things:

1)It unifies play and takes some pressure off the players. All the player has to do is describe an intention -- not an action -- and the DM can interpret this as best as possible. I think this is pretty crucial for a medium where everything takes place in one's mind. It is incredibly difficult, using the boards we do, to provide an updated round by round combat grid, for instance.

2)It speeds things up. If players make their own rolls there is always a chance another roll is needed, or a different roll or whatever. In addition, it opens the possibility of rolling out more than a single round of combat per post, a subject I will expound on in greater detail in a later post.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#8 Post by hedgeknight »

I personally do not like the DM rolling all of the dice. To me, rolling the dice for your character is half the fun of gaming. And in all of my years of gaming I've never ran across a game where the DM ran all of the dice...until I came to Unseen Servant. Weird huh?
So, I'm in complete disagreement with your premise on this issue. I wouldn't recommend this at all. But that's just my experience and my opinion.
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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#9 Post by Daos Soulstaff »

I don't roll all of the dice, but I do most of them. In a play-by-post game, it's the only way to keep things moving at a decent pace.

Take this typical exchange one might hear in any AD&D game:

DM: The barmaid brings you the beer and says it will cost two coppers.
Player: Can I flirt with the cute barmaid to get a discount on my beer?
DM: Roll a Charisma check.
Player: I got a 2.
DM: The barmaid giggles at your flirtatious banter and tells you this one is on the house.

In a face-to-face game, or even a real-time chat-game, this exchange will take, what, maybe half a minute, tops?

If both the DM and player post once a day (which is quite frequent for a pbp game, incidentally), this would take about three days. If even one of them only posts, say, once every three days? It could take up to a week, even longer! That's a long time to spend on a single exchange that ultimately results in a player saving 2 cp.

But if the DM makes the rolls instead, it goes like this:

DM: The barmaid brings you the beer and says it will cost two coppers.
Player: Can I flirt with the cute barmaid to get a discount on my beer?
DM: *rolls a Charisma check, gets a 2* The barmaid giggles at your flirtatious banter and tells you this one is on the house.

Assuming both only post once a day, then this is done with on the second day.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#10 Post by thirdkingdom »

Well, the big difference, I feel, is made up during combat. If no one in the party suffers major damage, and nothing changes tactically, I can roll through two or more rounds of combat in a single post. But yeah, there are a bunch of little instances where I think it makes a heck of a lot of sense to have the DM roll.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#11 Post by Alethan »

From a logical point of view, it shouldn't matter one bit who rolls the dice; they're all random rolls, or they're supposed to be. It shouldn't make a difference if one person rolls the dice instead of another... Unless, of course, chickens have been sacrificed.

From a players perspective, I'm a bit drawn between the two methods of play. I've been in a game for most of three years now where the GM makes all of the rolls, and I've come to enjoy it. I find I don't spend one minute of time ever worrying about the mechanics of what my character does, which means I can focus completely on dialog and character actions/development. It is a bit refreshing, to be honest with you.

On the other hand, I always look forward to the chance to take fate into my own hands when rolling the dice for one of the other games, where the players make most of their rolls. But I'm really not doing anything that the GM can't do, often times with greater efficiency.
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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#12 Post by Vargr1105 »

Speaking as a PbP GM I want the players to roll as many of their virtual dice as possible. Saves me time, work and trouble and there's only so much the dice roller can do.

As a PbP Player I don't mind if the GM rolls the virtual dice, sames me time, work and trouble. But I do demand the rolls are posted in play.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#13 Post by thirdkingdom »

When I used to run games in real an inordinate amount of time was spent trying to instill verisimilitude, especially at the beginning of a campaign. How did the PCs meet, how do their respective backstories mesh, can I find a creative way to start the game. There is always the old "you meet in a tavern" to fall back on, too.

At this point in my life, however, I have found myself eschewing even that old chestnut. Especially when starting a pbp game. I have found that the first one hundred posts or so are the most crucial; even if you don't throw the PCs directly into combat, give them something to choose. These days, when I start a game I don't care, and don't attempt to frame, the PCs meeting. They know each other, period. If they want to go further in depth that's fine, but my default assumption is they already have common cause for whatever reason. I use my first IC post to set the scene using broad brushstrokes. Two paragraphs, max. And then hand out the plot hooks, so there is something right away for players to sink their teeth into.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#14 Post by Fearghus »

For PBP games, I prefer the DM rolling dice. For the face to face games I run I let the players handle their rolls.

I've actually got a bit lazy with my face to face game and pretty much make the player handle all rolls except for damage taken. For most fights I just have the encounters statted up as if everything were a save DC. So in combat the PC makes several AC saves and if one fails he was hit and then I roll damage. Since its just me and one player it actually makes our encounters a little faster and keeps him well engaged.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#15 Post by thirdkingdom »

One of the things I really like about running pbp games -- and something that can be used to great advantage -- is the pace. I run pretty open-ended, sandboxy games, with lots of plots hooks. The In Search of Adventure game I'm running is an example of this. I started off with the idea that I would use the B series of modules, but very quickly ended up bypassing these and using my own adventures.

The biggest tip I can give to prospective DMs is this:

Do as little prep work as possible.

I rarely plan to far in advance, and often don't even develop a dungeon much further than a level at a time. Shh! Don't tell me players this. I've got a general idea, but that's about it. For instance, the players in ISoA started out running through Aleena's dungeon from the Red Box player's handbook. I added a second level, with a troll in the first room. The PCs ended up killing the troll, but didn't explore that level of the dungeon any more. And I have yet to develop that level past the troll's lair, simply because I wasn't sure they were going to go any further.

Because of the slow pace of pbp play I can, quite easily, roll out and populate a dungeon level between the time the group starts deciding what to do and actually enters the dungeon.

As another example, the group is currently investigating a necromancer's tower that appeared on the map as the result of a random die roll (I roll for random hex features as well as wandering monsters, and the result I got was "Wizard's Tower, ruined".) They saw the Tower, continued on to finish their current adventure and, once that was done, returned to explore the Tower. It was at that point that I started to think about what was going to be in the Tower. Likewise, they just encountered a group of kobolds near the tower as the result of a wandering encounter. Since I determined the kobold's lair was in the same hex as the Tower, I decided it was entirely reasonable that the lair and the lower Tower dungeons connect through an underground warren on tunnels. But I haven't actually drawn out the kobold lair yet, and won't until the group decides (if they do) to investigate it.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#16 Post by Vargr1105 »

thirdkingdom wrote:Do as little prep work as possible.
+1 and QFT.

And if you only run pre-published modules or magazine adventures you will need even less prep work. just sayin'. ;)

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#17 Post by dmw71 »

thirdkingdom wrote:The biggest tip I can give to prospective DMs is this:

Do as little prep work as possible.
I unwillingly did this exactly and agree that it's a great idea.

I spent about 50-60 hours in total getting Adventures in Foxmoor up and running, and maybe one of those hours was spent on the story, or maps, or names, or non-rule details at the last minute, or hour, if you will.

It is a struggle to have to come up with a map on the fly or fully populate/furnish a room or building, but that is the same regardless of whether you're running a face-to-face or play-by-post game.

Yes, do some prep work. Maybe have some maps created. Maybe populate an inn or two. But skip doing any highly detailed master-planning because it could all be for naught of your players don't follow those plans... and I suspect you could easily lose a group of players if you attempt to railroad them into something they might not be inclined to do.
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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#18 Post by Vargr1105 »

I think people are going the wrong way about this, and still stuck in an IRL frame of thought. In a PbP you can pull something out of your arse and just insert it or place something in a room at the last moment, but you have 1-2 days to do it on average. And the thread work as a list of what has happened, so any changes you make will be there and not be forgotten.

PbP can be the ultimate seats-of-your-pants GMing style, it just doesn't feel like that to the players. Personally, the heaviest prep I have to do is preparing/altering/uploading MP3s and Pictures. And I only do those because I want to, it's not even something that is expected.

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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#19 Post by dmw71 »

Vargr1105 wrote:In a PbP you can pull something out of your arse and just insert it or place something in a room at the last moment, but you have 1-2 days to do it on average.
This all depends on the established pace of your game. In a more casual, 3-4 posts per week game, it is much easier to "pull something out of your arse." When you're posting on a daily basis or more frequently, having some prep work done ahead of time becomes more meaningful.
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Re: Stuff I've learned about running games

#20 Post by tooleychris »

I hear a lot of poo poos involving "railroading" but TSR /WOTC / MANY others have made a pretty decent living railroading players. And the players /DM/GM even PAYS for it! Called modules. GRANTED, their is some le-way and artistic wiggle room but for the most part, with the exception of a few, there was a plot, heroes, villians, a puzzle, and one or two inevitable outcomes.
I'm sure many DMs, myself included, used these for inspiration, plot hooks, ect... but I've known a few DMs to play them by the book. With MY PnP group you CANT run by the book AT ALL and damn well better have a couple different scenarios already built up because they are experts at derailing the train.
As far as who rolls the dice, I let players shake the dice cup whenever possible. Nothing gives more satisfaction than a great roll. My players talk about such things still, years later.
On the flip side, nothing is more disheartening than a DM making all the rolls and failing that save VS death magic by a couple points. Sure, it's STILL random, but the player still feels a bit cheated.

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