Discussion - Character Concepts

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ffilz
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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#61 Post by ffilz »

Marullus wrote:As the party greybeard, I think he's a good candidate to be old, if you like. 170 years ago he would have previously fled from frost dragons... Thoughts?
I'm debating that. I'm always a little uncomfortable with having a character older than a chargen system produces, but I see the sensibility of it here, and outside of the chargen mechanics there's really not much mechanical impact of age. Do any of the other players have any thoughts?
Dr. Samuel Linkletter 6AAB83, Age 30, Doctor, 3 Terms. Medical-3, Blade Cbt-1, Streetwise-1, Mechanical (Cloth)-1, Scholar-2, Mechanical (Metal)-0, Mechanical (Wood)-0, Mechanical (Stone)-0, Mechanical (Machinery)-0, Admin-0, Pistol-0
Matsumoto Senichi Iuichi Unicorn Shugenja, Rank 1, Glory: 2;0, Honor: 3;6, XP: 5, FIRE 3 // Agility 3 / Intelligence 3, AIR 2 // Reflexes 2 / Aware 3, WATER 3 // Strength 3 / Perc 3, EARTH 2 // Stamina 2 / Will 2, VOID 2,
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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#62 Post by Verrain »

A few questions as I am putting things together.

1) How many resource points for a hut on the edge of the wood?

2) Since I've been away from Erebor for some time, should these two Greed questions be a no for me?

- Has the character witnessed an outsider (i.e. Smaug) in possession of a work of Dwarven Art? (+1 Greed)
- Has the Dwarf ever had is prized treasure stolen from him? (+1 Greed, define the lost possession)

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#63 Post by Marullus »

A small house, 10rps.

You can say No to those questions. Or... You can find creative story that let's you say yes. :) Is there some servant of the Necromancer who has stolen your work of Dwarven art?

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#64 Post by Verrain »

Marullus wrote:A small house, 10rps.
Hmm. I somehow thought that if a small house in Erebor was worth 10rps then a hut built with foraged materials on the edge of Mirkwood would be less. I'll either have to rejig some numbers around or decide I live under a hollow log.

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#65 Post by Craigers07 »

mynamesart wrote:
Verrain wrote:Word bearer to Horncaller is proving surprisingly popular. Out of curiosity, what drew you to it? Wordbearer attracted me for the Iron Memory and Quick Step traits.
That being said, I also have an idea for a similarly focused character that wouldn't use the same lifepaths, and would be very different. I've got an idea for the following:

Born Clansmen --> Husband --> Tinkerer --> Trader

It's still a very social build, but in going through the thread again I think it has far less overlap with the other concepts. I can still function as a lead character in terms of dealing with outside groups, but in a different vein. And playing off the Curious trait from the Tinkerer lifepath, I can still throw in some of that historian nonsense from my original concept using some general skill points to still have him be a little bit quirky.

How does that sound to everybody?
This sounds like a great concept. It would provide a great social network that some of our characters could rely on as a common bond.

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#66 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

@ffilz: if you want to add age to your character within the system, could you add a lifepath, doubling one you already took? The book allpws it with reduced gains from the path. I don't know how much it would affect game play.

@art: i like the concept. If my character did act as a teamster, perhaps he hauled some of your goods from time to time.

@ any of you: Speaking of which, if I choose Adventurer as my final path, what does that mean? Delving? Odd jobs? Steady work as a teamster? Hired thug?
Thanks.

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#67 Post by Verrain »

@Rusty I always viewed the Adventurer lifepath as a dwarf seeking their fortune outside of the Dwarven hold. So it could mean traveling the lands around Lonely Mountain finding work where it comes, travel for a specific task that could not be done at home, etc. I suggest looking at what skills you decide to take from the Adventurer lifepath and ask yourself what went on that you had to learn those things.

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#68 Post by ffilz »

Rusty Tincanne wrote:@ffilz: if you want to add age to your character within the system, could you add a lifepath, doubling one you already took? The book allpws it with reduced gains from the path. I don't know how much it would affect game play.
To get to age > 170 mechanically, I would need to repeat the Greybeard life path 5 more times, gaining 100 years (age 187), 60 resource points, 7 or 8 skill points (round down or up?), +1 M, +1 P, +1 M/P, and 2 trait points...

The stats would mean B5 for all his stats, or one B6 and one B4... (and possibly B5 Reflexes...).

The skills would mean several B4 skills (more if Willpower goes to B6...).

That's quite a lift... I mean it'd be a cool character, but might overshadow others (his relationships would also bump up, and he'd add a reputation and/or affiliation).

Frank
Dr. Samuel Linkletter 6AAB83, Age 30, Doctor, 3 Terms. Medical-3, Blade Cbt-1, Streetwise-1, Mechanical (Cloth)-1, Scholar-2, Mechanical (Metal)-0, Mechanical (Wood)-0, Mechanical (Stone)-0, Mechanical (Machinery)-0, Admin-0, Pistol-0
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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#69 Post by Verrain »

@ffilz Well I'd rather you take the GM's offer to just be older than play with the system to get a dwarf that old. As for the idea of being a dwarf that old, I say go for it if you think it would be interesting to play. Part of the the fun of this is dwarves from all different perspectives after all.

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#70 Post by ffilz »

Verrain wrote:@ffilz Well I'd rather you take the GM's offer to just be older than play with the system to get a dwarf that old. As for the idea of being a dwarf that old, I say go for it if you think it would be interesting to play. Part of the the fun of this is dwarves from all different perspectives after all.
Yea, while taking the extra life paths makes for a cool character, it really is too much. On the other hand, just adding 85-100 years to his age still doesn't feel quite right to me.
Dr. Samuel Linkletter 6AAB83, Age 30, Doctor, 3 Terms. Medical-3, Blade Cbt-1, Streetwise-1, Mechanical (Cloth)-1, Scholar-2, Mechanical (Metal)-0, Mechanical (Wood)-0, Mechanical (Stone)-0, Mechanical (Machinery)-0, Admin-0, Pistol-0
Matsumoto Senichi Iuichi Unicorn Shugenja, Rank 1, Glory: 2;0, Honor: 3;6, XP: 5, FIRE 3 // Agility 3 / Intelligence 3, AIR 2 // Reflexes 2 / Aware 3, WATER 3 // Strength 3 / Perc 3, EARTH 2 // Stamina 2 / Will 2, VOID 2,
Calligraphy (Per) 1, Defense (Agil) 1, Herbalism (Int) 1, Horsemanship (Awar/Agil) 1, Hunting (Per) 1, Meditation (Void) 1, Kenjitsu (Agil) 1
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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#71 Post by Verrain »

Well, I'm biased as I'm playing a Dwarf with a human lifepath because the GM felt it fit the concept and seems cool. So having you add a 1 in front your character's age and the Dragon-wise skill doesn't bother me at all as a character creation tweak.

If it bothers you to get it for nothing, let's make up a trait, "Older Than He Looks" and you can pay two or three trait points for the privilege of being older.

Otherwise, play the character as the rules make him. Nothing wrong with that.

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#72 Post by Marullus »

I look at it as an inconsistency in the Burning Wheel logic. All of the "long age" lifepaths tend to require 5+LP characters. It is nearly impossible to get a dwarf over 150 years old using a 4LP character in Burning Wheel.* As you point out, making a 9 LP character is not a viable solution.

I don't see that as good logic. How is it that you get to be a Greybeard battle commander at 86 years old? He's still a boy. Dwarves don't even reach "peak fighting condition" until 200-245 years old (when they have the most physical attributes). Dwarven middle-age on their table is about 346-396 years old. I would rather ascribe it as a problem of BW interacting with our environment and treat Greybeard as if it is a longer lifepath.

Your Greybeard would get 8pts Mental and 16pts Physical. My offer is that you keep that but move the chronological age for the story. You get back to 16 physical at 301-345 years old, if you want to use that as a benchmark. He isn't as mentally acute as his peers (8 mental instead of 11), but that probably goes along with the headblows and the Thousand Yard Stare. :)

....I also do like the "Older Than He Looks" character trait for 1 trait point. :) That would be great in play! Though, I'm fine if you keep "Oddly Likeable" as well.

For those interested, here's max age within a category at 4 LPs. Runners-up are usually much shorter.

Clansmen:
202 years: Born Clansman --> Tinkerer --> Husband --> Longbeard
(Next runner up is only 167. Husband at 70 years is only reliable way to boost age.)

Guilder:
106 years: Born Guilder --> Apprentice --> Journeyman --> Craftsman

Artificer:
95 years: Born Artificer --> Ardent --> Tyro --> Artificer

Noble:
166 years: Born Noble --> Ardent --> Axe Bearer --> Prince
146 years: Born Noble --> Abdecedart --> Chronicler --> Seneschal

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#73 Post by ffilz »

Yea, the ages for the life paths do seem a bit too short. Of course it's an age old problem with long lived races and any expertise rating system that takes age into account. You either wind up with ridiculous number of skill points for long lived races, or they can't advance in game (because they learn slower to make the chargen work), or you are playing children (and anyone older is NPC only).

Would it be awful to take the stat pool for the appropriate age? I could see a point that elves and dwarves may spend a lot of time doing something that doesn't change them much (so no skills other than maybe wise and 1 skill point, resources, life path stat bumps, or traits).

Either way, for sense of game logic, I will go with Age 187 and open Dragon-Wise and take the Oddly Likeable trait.
Dr. Samuel Linkletter 6AAB83, Age 30, Doctor, 3 Terms. Medical-3, Blade Cbt-1, Streetwise-1, Mechanical (Cloth)-1, Scholar-2, Mechanical (Metal)-0, Mechanical (Wood)-0, Mechanical (Stone)-0, Mechanical (Machinery)-0, Admin-0, Pistol-0
Matsumoto Senichi Iuichi Unicorn Shugenja, Rank 1, Glory: 2;0, Honor: 3;6, XP: 5, FIRE 3 // Agility 3 / Intelligence 3, AIR 2 // Reflexes 2 / Aware 3, WATER 3 // Strength 3 / Perc 3, EARTH 2 // Stamina 2 / Will 2, VOID 2,
Calligraphy (Per) 1, Defense (Agil) 1, Herbalism (Int) 1, Horsemanship (Awar/Agil) 1, Hunting (Per) 1, Meditation (Void) 1, Kenjitsu (Agil) 1
Giotto Lombardi 856994 Age 26 (2 Terms) Electonics-1, Vacc Suit-0, Computer-1, Bribery-1, Shotgun-0, Cr 1000, Shotgun

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#74 Post by Marullus »

For Ffilz specifically...
I'd recommend he should be at least 230 years old. That puts him into his early Axe Bearer years (instead of early childhood) when the dragon attacked. He was a "young officer" in the battles of the Gray Mountains where he gained his hard-earned knowledge of dragons, and continued on as a grizzled graybeard through the time at the Lonely Mountain. If he's the "old experienced guy role" then I think that's about the right mark.

Regarding stat points...

My initial offer was to keep your lifepath-generated state points. That's on the table. (8 mental / 16 physical)

I understand the logic for wanting to take the "actual age" points. (in my suggestion, 10 mental / 18 physical)

...I acknowledge the problem with specifying a 4 LP game and then trying to have a variety of ages when the LP age system doesn't support it. I don't want to open up LPs higher.

...I can normally explain away the "young dwarf" problem in that they're the ones more likely to strike out in the first place. In this setting, however, everyone in the Dwarf Hold is thrust out into the adventure. There SHOULD be far more variety in the age ranges than a typical game.

If I'm going to offer it, I need to offer it to everyone. Everyone would be able to specify their age storywise, then take the stat points that are appropriate. Some characters are intentionally young and inexperienced (like Duergar) and primed to become something new in this experience, while others are older, more potent, but set in their ways. There has to be a trade off. How about... For each 75 years of age you are, your Aptitude for a new skill is +1. ... if you advance your age, your Aptitude for a new skill doubles?* (i.e. it takes an additional beginner's luck test before it opens.)

Thoughts from the group? It impacts everyone. I could live with it, but I'm not convinced, so I'm looking for consensus.


* My initial math allowed someone to advance attributes (and all the benefits thereof), and still basically break even on the Aptitude, because higher stats LOWERS aptitude. By doubling Aptitude instead, it provides a clearer detriment. Perhaps after I look at it closer, I'll calculate a middle ground. I'm offering this compromise regarding aptitude by stealing some logic from Mouse Guard/Torchbearer - if you have a higher "nature" it is harder for you to learn new things. Older dwarves are more set in their ways.
Last edited by Marullus on Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#75 Post by Verrain »

Hmmm. So the younger would open the new survival skills needed faster that the graybeards. That sounds reasonable to me. Burning Wheel is far more focused on making the character you want rather than worrying about relative power levels after all.

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#76 Post by ffilz »

Marullus wrote:For Ffilz specifically...
I'd recommend he should be at least 230 years old. That puts him into his early Axe Bearer years (instead of early childhood) when the dragon attacked. He was a "young officer" in the battles of the Gray Mountains where he gained his hard-earned knowledge of dragons, and continued on as a grizzled graybeard through the time at the Lonely Mountain. If he's the "old experienced guy role" then I think that's about the right mark.

Regarding stat points...

My initial offer was to keep your lifepath-generated state points. That's on the table. (8 mental / 16 physical)

I understand the logic for wanting to take the "actual age" points. (in my suggestion, 10 mental / 18 physical)

...I acknowledge the problem with specifying a 4 LP game and then trying to have a variety of ages when the LP age system doesn't support it. I don't want to open up LPs higher.

...I can normally explain away the "young dwarf" problem in that they're the ones more likely to strike out in the first place. In this setting, however, everyone in the Dwarf Hold is thrust out into the adventure. There SHOULD be far more variety in the age ranges than a typical game.

If I'm going to offer it, I need to offer it to everyone. Everyone would be able to specify their age storywise, then take the stat points that are appropriate. Some characters are intentionally young and inexperienced (like Duergar) and primed to become something new in this experience, while others are older, more potent, but set in their ways. There has to be a trade off. How about... For each 75 years of age you are, your Aptitude for a new skill is +1. ... if you advance your age, your Aptitude for a new skill doubles?* (i.e. it takes an additional beginner's luck test before it opens.)

Thoughts from the group? It impacts everyone. I could live with it, but I'm not convinced, so I'm looking for consensus.

* My initial math allowed someone to advance attributes (and all the benefits thereof), and still basically break even on the Aptitude, because higher stats LOWERS aptitude. By doubling Aptitude instead, it provides a clearer detriment. Perhaps after I look at it closer, I'll calculate a middle ground. I'm offering this compromise regarding aptitude by stealing some logic from Mouse Guard/Torchbearer - if you have a higher "nature" it is harder for you to learn new things. Older dwarves are more set in their ways.
Yea, just +1 aptitude is too easy. One option that would balance easily for any age - if you advance your age, for each additional stat point applied to a stat, advance the aptitude in that stat by 2 (so original Will say was 4, aptitude 6, after aging, Will is 5, but aptitude is 7). Of course that doesn't do much for the physical stats that don't have many associated skills...). Doubling aptitude might be too harsh (Will 4/Aptitude 6 goes to Will 5/Aptitude 10). Hmm, maybe take the additional mental points + 1 and bump both Perception and Will aptitude by that much. Do the same for physical. So with the suggestion, all my aptitudes would be 3 higher than the stats suggest (and thus all higher than if I stuck with the original stats).

Gah, it's too bad the Codex at least didn't include some advice for burning older characters. I've tried to burn an older NPC and it was absurd to try and fill the age with life paths, but being older than one's life paths should amount to something.

I'll assume we'll come up with a workable detriment and advance my age.
Dr. Samuel Linkletter 6AAB83, Age 30, Doctor, 3 Terms. Medical-3, Blade Cbt-1, Streetwise-1, Mechanical (Cloth)-1, Scholar-2, Mechanical (Metal)-0, Mechanical (Wood)-0, Mechanical (Stone)-0, Mechanical (Machinery)-0, Admin-0, Pistol-0
Matsumoto Senichi Iuichi Unicorn Shugenja, Rank 1, Glory: 2;0, Honor: 3;6, XP: 5, FIRE 3 // Agility 3 / Intelligence 3, AIR 2 // Reflexes 2 / Aware 3, WATER 3 // Strength 3 / Perc 3, EARTH 2 // Stamina 2 / Will 2, VOID 2,
Calligraphy (Per) 1, Defense (Agil) 1, Herbalism (Int) 1, Horsemanship (Awar/Agil) 1, Hunting (Per) 1, Meditation (Void) 1, Kenjitsu (Agil) 1
Giotto Lombardi 856994 Age 26 (2 Terms) Electonics-1, Vacc Suit-0, Computer-1, Bribery-1, Shotgun-0, Cr 1000, Shotgun

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#77 Post by ffilz »

Ok, here we go with advanced age (note, I stayed away from B5 Reflexes...):

Name: Khûdrarn Grayshield, Dain I's nephew by an unnamed daughter of Nain II
Concept/Bio:
Lifepaths: Born Noble, Noble Ardent, Noble Axe Bearer, Lead to Dwarven Host, Graybeard
Age : 230

Stats: Wi: B6, Pe: B5, Po: B6, Fo: B6, Ag: B4, Sp: B4, Stride: 6
Attributes: Ref: B4, Ste: B7, Hes: 4, Hea: B8, MW: B12, Greed: B5, Circles: B3, Resources: B0
PTGS: Su: B4 Li: B7 Mi: B9 Se: B10 Tr: B11 Mo: B12

Beliefs:

1. Here we go again... I watched my cousin Fror crushed by the cold drake, how can one hope to defeat such a creature, now I have seen my home yet again trashed. I will lead my son to a safe new home (to be fine tuned as we develop more of an idea what our goal is).
2. Thrim is a good lad, I will look after him and keep him safe.
3.
4. Oath:

Instincts:

1.
2.
3.

Traits: [Dt] Accustomed to the Dark, [Char] Bearded, [Char] Chuffing, [Dt] Dvergar, [Dt] Greed, [Char] Humility in the Face of your Betters, [Dt] Oathsworn, [Dt] Oddlylikeable, [Char] Proud, [Dt] Shaped from Earth and Stone, [Dt] Stout, [Dt] Thousand Yard Stare, [Dt] Tough

Skills: Armor Training, Axe B4, Campaign-wise B2, Command B4, Dragon-Wise B2, Dwarven Rune Script B2, Field Dressing B2, Formation Fighting, Intimidation B3, Khirurgeon B2, Shield Training, Sing B3, Soothing Platitudes B3, Stentorious Debate B3, Throwing B2, Tunnel-wise B2, Whispered Secrets-wise B2, Erebor-Wise B2, Dragon-Wise B2

Affiliations: 1D Dwarven Nobles
Reputations: 1D Reputation as a dwarven noble
Relationships: Gorya Goldsteine, Wife (Significant, immediate family, romantic love, hateful/rival), Throfroin Grayshield, Son (Minor, immediate family)

Gear: Dwarven Arms, Dwarven Heavy Mail, Clothes, Sturdy Shoes, Traveling Gear

Wealth: Gem encrusted goblet (wedding gift, 1D cash), Diamond cuff links (Anniversary present, 1D cash), (, 1D cash), (, 1D cash)

Property: Dwarven Hall (lost to Smaug)
Last edited by ffilz on Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
Dr. Samuel Linkletter 6AAB83, Age 30, Doctor, 3 Terms. Medical-3, Blade Cbt-1, Streetwise-1, Mechanical (Cloth)-1, Scholar-2, Mechanical (Metal)-0, Mechanical (Wood)-0, Mechanical (Stone)-0, Mechanical (Machinery)-0, Admin-0, Pistol-0
Matsumoto Senichi Iuichi Unicorn Shugenja, Rank 1, Glory: 2;0, Honor: 3;6, XP: 5, FIRE 3 // Agility 3 / Intelligence 3, AIR 2 // Reflexes 2 / Aware 3, WATER 3 // Strength 3 / Perc 3, EARTH 2 // Stamina 2 / Will 2, VOID 2,
Calligraphy (Per) 1, Defense (Agil) 1, Herbalism (Int) 1, Horsemanship (Awar/Agil) 1, Hunting (Per) 1, Meditation (Void) 1, Kenjitsu (Agil) 1
Giotto Lombardi 856994 Age 26 (2 Terms) Electonics-1, Vacc Suit-0, Computer-1, Bribery-1, Shotgun-0, Cr 1000, Shotgun

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#78 Post by Verrain »

Name: Dvalen

Lifepaths: Born Noble, Noble Ardent, Lead to Outcast, Runecaster Lead to ?, Crazy Witch

Age : 74

Stats: Wi: B4, Pe: B6, Po: B3, Fo: B4, Ag: B5, Sp: B4, Stride: 6
Attributes: Ref: B5, Ste: B6, Hes: 6, Hea: B6, MW: B9, Greed: B5, Circles: B2, Resources: B0

PTGS: Su: B3 Li: B5 Mi: B7 Se: B8 Tr: B9 Mo: B10

Beliefs:
1) Oath: I swore to Radigast the Brown, never take the life of a bird or beast lest its my life or theirs!
2) I must reclaim my ancient rune stones from Radigast. I must convince him it is time again for me to speak the truth.
3)
4)

Instincts:
1) Scavenge for food every morning.
2) Always gather useful herbs when I see them.
3)

Traits: [Char] A Little Crazy, [Dt] Accustomed to the Dark, [Char] Bearded, [Dt] Dvergar, [Dt] Greed (Beauty, Craftsmanship, Power), [Char] Humility in the Face of your Betters, [Char] Ineffable Feature (Beard), [Dt] Low Speech (Birds), [Dt] Oathsworn, [Dt] Shaped from Earth and Stone, [Char] Slave to Fate, [Dt] Stout, [Dt] Tough

Skills: Bird-wise B3, Cudgel B2, Dwarven Rune Script B3, Elf-wise B3, Fear of Mirkwood-wise B3, Folklore B4, Foraging B4, Herbalism B4, Rune Casting B4, Scavenging B4, Sing B2, Soothing Platitudes B2, Ugly Truth B3, Whispered Secrets-wise B4

Affiliations: 1D Dwarven Nobles

Reputations: 1D Reputation as a dwarven noble

Relationships: Radigast the Brown (15pt), Elion, Elven Scout (4pt, Forbidden)

Gear: Branch, Clothes, Sturdy Shoes, Travelling Gear, Shoddy Rune Stones

Property: House

Weapons: Branch

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#79 Post by Craigers07 »

Name: Thrim
Concept/Bio:
Lifepaths: Noble, Ardent, Axe Bearer, Foot Soldier
Age : 86

Stats:
Attributes:
PTGS:

Beliefs:
Instincts:

Traits:
Skills:

Affiliations:
Reputations:
Relationships:

Gear:
Property:

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Re: Discussion - Character Concepts

#80 Post by Rusty Tincanne »

Name:
Concept/Bio: Could have been a nice, average life, except for love. The family of the woman he loved disapproved of him, saying he would not be able to provide for their daughter, so he followed his cousin out of the mountain, taking an oath to return with fortune enough to support a family.
Lifepaths: Born Guilder >> Hauler >> Tinkerer >> Adventurer
Age : 71

Stats:
Attributes:
PTGS:

Beliefs: 1.
2.
3. I will find my fortunes outside the Mountain; enough to satisfy my fiance's family that I can provide hearth and home for their daughter.
4.

Instincts:

Traits:
Skills:

Affiliations:
Reputations:
Relationships: Cousin (significant, relation, traveling companion); Fiancee (minor, romantic interest)

Gear:
Property: [/quote]

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