Initiative and combat resolution

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
dmw71
POWAH!
POWAH!
Posts: 19482
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:18 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Contact:

Initiative and combat resolution

#1 Post by dmw71 »

I don't know why, but I have been thinking about initiative today and thought I would toss a few general questions out there for sake of discussion:

1) Would requiring the declaration of all actions prior to rolling initiative slow down a play-by-post game too much? Would it matter if each character had default actions defined ahead of time?

2) Has anyone ever played where individual (and not group) initiative rolls were made? In other words, each character and each monster would get their own initiative rolls instead of one entire side acting first followed by the entire other side performing their actions as a group.

3) Has anyone had a DM make the initiative rolls for both the players and the monsters? Would anyone object to this?


Thoughts?


-- DM --
Game Status Groups Players
Greyhawk Campaign: Sandbox (1e) On Hiatus (Archived)
--
--

User avatar
rredmond
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 8454
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: South Jersey

Re: Initiative

#2 Post by rredmond »

Ooo, good questions, let me take a stab because I love initiative and highly recommend ADDICT (be careful this is a direct link to the PDF) as an interesting read.

1. I think it might slow down play. I always go on the philosophy of even if you guys get a 6, so can the monsters, so you never know. Plus when you bring segments into play, it makes it even more interesting! I hate default actions, but honestly they are a good way to go in PbP for folks that are AFK for too long;

2. I have toyed with individual initiative SO many times. I do want to try it in a PbP some time. From what I hear my thoughts mirror 2Es way of initiative. But the way I'd do it (and to be honest I haven't tried this, yet) is everyone would roll a d10 and then modify by your DEX surprise bonus (or penalty as it were) this way everything would be happening on a different segment. I think it's a GREAT idea and would work better in PbP than in FtF games! IMNSHO.

3. Yup, I've played in games like that and it worked. I've also played in games where the DM made all the rolls... those worked too, but I preferred to do it myself as a player. To each his own though, and those games were fun too, don't get me wrong.

Now I'd better leave work before my wife kills me! ;) Night all.
This is a game about killing things and taking their stuff so you can become more powerful in order to kill bigger things and take even better stuff.
Alethan: I'm good with NOT pressing our luck this time.
mjulius: That's how I know I'm home.
Pulpatoon: The whole point of PbP is to take the scheduling pressure off the game. We're just chatty because we're so eager!
Scott308: ...everyone should be reminded of just how wonderful the people they play games with here can be in real life.
Leitz: Quality and quantity wise, I think US is the best I've seen.
Paladin: I can promise terror, glory, and riches...or a quick and brutal death.
Inferno: Come on! That's was Vicar's Head, a completely different doomed village!

User avatar
rredmond
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 8454
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: South Jersey

Re: Initiative and combat resolution

#3 Post by rredmond »

Cool new surprise, intiative, and combat (all sorts) resolution flowcharts!

Here's a link to the blog, but the (most excellent looking) PDF is linked inside that:
https://muleabides.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... rt-of-add/

Enjoy!
This is a game about killing things and taking their stuff so you can become more powerful in order to kill bigger things and take even better stuff.
Alethan: I'm good with NOT pressing our luck this time.
mjulius: That's how I know I'm home.
Pulpatoon: The whole point of PbP is to take the scheduling pressure off the game. We're just chatty because we're so eager!
Scott308: ...everyone should be reminded of just how wonderful the people they play games with here can be in real life.
Leitz: Quality and quantity wise, I think US is the best I've seen.
Paladin: I can promise terror, glory, and riches...or a quick and brutal death.
Inferno: Come on! That's was Vicar's Head, a completely different doomed village!

Hrafn
Guide
Guide
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 11:16 am

Re: Initiative and combat resolution

#4 Post by Hrafn »

dmw71 wrote:I don't know why, but I have been thinking about initiative today and thought I would toss a few general questions out there for sake of discussion:

1) Would requiring the declaration of all actions prior to rolling initiative slow down a play-by-post game too much? Would it matter if each character had default actions defined ahead of time?
it was my understanding this was standard for older games? I've seen a variant where you roll initiative, and the slowest people declare first, and the fastest go first, so their actions have better priority. This is also sort of how ACKS is supposed to play, at least with spells and disengaging from melee, so I suspect what will happen is the DM will declare end of round and each player should list their action. I don't know how it will work in practice, and cannot guess as to how to streamline it until then. Sorry :oops:
2) Has anyone ever played where individual (and not group) initiative rolls were made? In other words, each character and each monster would get their own initiative rolls instead of one entire side acting first followed by the entire other side performing their actions as a group.
This is actually how I learned to play! My DM started me off solo, and we just added new initiative checks to new players who showed up. For PbP, it depends on your game type. if you are able to post quick and short posts, then just do it like a standard tabletop game. The other option I've seen is using declaration, and whoever posts gets to post, but actions still go in Init. order, and you get a redo if someone else somehow obviates your post. It led to some people stalling though, which can straina n already slow game...
3) Has anyone had a DM make the initiative rolls for both the players and the monsters? Would anyone object to this?
This is quite common I hear, for PbP. So long as you tell everyone before we start "I will be making these speecific rolls for you to speed up play" it should be fine. It also works with perceptions skills, if you use them; As DM, you can roll Listen % behind the screen, and just add in the detail as you describe a scene. It's faster to assume the players are competent enough to remember :P

Example Post wrote:"You enter a dim cavern, expansive beyond even your magic light, frederick, and your Infravision, Mimi. There is nothing but the slow, steady drip of water somewhere else in the caverns, echoing through eternities of darkness."

Amill:
Amill, however, happens to hear the feint sound of that doppleganger he paid off scraping towards the party, it's peculiar podiatric structures making a distinct noise, however silent it may think it is being. If he isn't careful, either he or the doppleganger will blow his cover!
&c. Online play has some issues, but it also has some tools that tabletop doesn't! You can make an if/then/else chart with your posts, if you feel like it, putting conditions on which spoiler the DM should consider canon based on whether your primary or secondary targets are still alive, even 8-)
Kaa, who devours (5th level shaman, ACKS)

User avatar
AQuebman
Ranger Knight
Ranger Knight
Posts: 1228
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:13 pm
Location: Cincinnati Ohio

Re: Initiative and combat resolution

#5 Post by AQuebman »

I like to do it traditional just because players tend to like things as close to a normal tabletop game as possible but i've thought in my next game I run i'm going to roll everything to speed things up and just let players declare actions. This way I can have sort of that in and out style my campaign currently has and allow me to spit the rolls that I need out there instead of forcing everyone to wait for an unexpected saving throw etc...

User avatar
Argennian
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
Posts: 4885
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:12 am
Location: Bay Area, NorCal

Re: Initiative and combat resolution

#6 Post by Argennian »

dmw71 wrote:1) Would requiring the declaration of all actions prior to rolling initiative slow down a play-by-post game too much?

Not at all. Perhaps it matters depending on the kind of game/edition/whatever, but I thought that was the norm with most pbp games. The players posts their declared actions, someone usually adds a party initiative roll in their post (unless the DM's doing that), and then the round's action is resolved after all players have chimed in.

Honestly though, it's always the DM/GM and game group's choice that really matters. After seeing it and playing it both ways, I actually prefer this method. Seems especially so with the pbp format.
dmw71 wrote:Would it matter if each character had default actions defined ahead of time?
If someone ends up AFK or goes MIA unexpectedly, this goes a long way to helping the DM npc their toon and keeps the game from stalling. In the pbp game, I ask for basic Default Actions as a DM and post that stuff as a player. You never know when RL will happen and you might be MIA unexpectedly.

Doesn't have to be too complicated, though. Stuff like place desired position in the marching order/watch rotations, what their PC would do/use in combat, etc. Detailing a character's general demeanor and disposition helps with a lot with non-combat encounter resolution, too.

dmw71 wrote:2) Has anyone ever played where individual (and not group) initiative rolls were made? In other words, each character and each monster would get their own initiative rolls instead of one entire side acting first followed by the entire other side performing their actions as a group.
This is how it's done in 3 of my regular FtF games I play in, with a individual d10 roll for EVERY character, PC, NPC and monsters alike. (Two of these games are straight 2E games and the last is a 1E/2E hybrid. They do the d10, higher is better, and add in Dex bonuses as well to initiative. As an aside, they only roll once at the beginning of the first round and not for each round)

Honestly, I don't like it. Way too much complication and strain that's not needed. If you use a d6 for initiative, that's up to 6 separate rounds of action per every encounter round, up to 10 for when a d10 is rolled. All those extra rolls and numbers that have to be tracked and adjudicated just makes melee encounters grind to a crawl. Add in the fact that if you are in a games with a lot of players/characters, there's likely going to be a lot baddies and monsters the party will be up against. Imho, the single die roll for each side is just so much linear. Hard to beat the simplicity of two dice being rolled for each side. So I don't. ;)
dmw71 wrote:3) Has anyone had a DM make the initiative rolls for both the players and the monsters? Would anyone object to this?
Yeah, the two pbps I'm in over at DF go that way. Works fine.

Over here, however, the players roll against the DM/GM, just like we do in our FtF games! 8-)

But yeah, no issues or worries with that. I'd think that as long as a player can make most of the rolls for their characters (like attacks, (most) saving throws, attribute checks, etc.), should be all good.
Yosef Travathas: High Elf Fighter4/Magic-User3 (rredmond's Pacesetter Games "Legacy of the Unknown" OSRIC Playtest)
Brok Sterling: Human Assassin3 (ToniXX's Incursion into Newiron OSRIC Playtest)
Tanik Tremwoodak: Dwarf Cleric3 (Dave's 1e Skype Game)

DM: home-brew OSRIC "A New Hope to the West" campaign

Fireball... good!!

"What's it gonna take?"
"Everything."
tkrexx as Emm the Avenging Druid wrote:I shall burn you, and I shall sink your petty warship with fire and lightning, and the ocean shall swallow it and all aboard, and no one will remember any of you!

User avatar
Alethan
POWAH!
POWAH!
Posts: 14355
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:50 pm
Location: Midwest
Contact:

Re: Initiative and combat resolution

#7 Post by Alethan »

Individual initiative for every player, rolled every round, seems like it would be a bit tedious. But if you wanted to do it, it could go smoothly in the long run if you were to have a rule that said everyone rolls initiative once for the encounter, then that is applied to every round. What's more, with the macro function on the US Dice roller, it would be simple for everyone to make their dice rolls, even if you incorporated weapon speed into your combat (and even if you used multiple weapons, because you're just making the macro once, and it doesn't take but 30 seconds to make a macro).

1. Have everyone figure out their weapon speed on their primary weapon (or for any weapon they plan on using frequently).
2. Have everyone create a macro similar to this: "Gwillt's Initiative Roll (scimitar): [1d10+5]"
(Note: This is using 2e initiative, which I'm a huge fan of now, where the number you roll is the segment you take action on in the round. If the number ends up being higher than 10, then it just determines who goes in what order. The "+5" is the scimitar's weapon speed factor.)
3. Before the first round of combat starts, the DM asks everyone to roll their initiative. Everyone just needs to click their macro button and it's done.
4. The DM makes a post that provides the action order for the entire encounter.
5. Work through the combat sequences as you normally would.
Dragon foot. Bamboo pole. Little mouse. Tiny boy.

User avatar
AQuebman
Ranger Knight
Ranger Knight
Posts: 1228
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:13 pm
Location: Cincinnati Ohio

Re: Initiative and combat resolution

#8 Post by AQuebman »

Alethan wrote:Individual initiative for every player, rolled every round, seems like it would be a bit tedious. But if you wanted to do it, it could go smoothly in the long run if you were to have a rule that said everyone rolls initiative once for the encounter, then that is applied to every round. What's more, with the macro function on the US Dice roller, it would be simple for everyone to make their dice rolls, even if you incorporated weapon speed into your combat (and even if you used multiple weapons, because you're just making the macro once, and it doesn't take but 30 seconds to make a macro).

1. Have everyone figure out their weapon speed on their primary weapon (or for any weapon they plan on using frequently).
2. Have everyone create a macro similar to this: "Gwillt's Initiative Roll (scimitar): [1d10+5]"
(Note: This is using 2e initiative, which I'm a huge fan of now, where the number you roll is the segment you take action on in the round. If the number ends up being higher than 10, then it just determines who goes in what order. The "+5" is the scimitar's weapon speed factor.)
3. Before the first round of combat starts, the DM asks everyone to roll their initiative. Everyone just needs to click their macro button and it's done.
4. The DM makes a post that provides the action order for the entire encounter.
5. Work through the combat sequences as you normally would.

While i'm not doing 2E that's what DCC does. Everyone rolls initiative for the combat and we just go in that order for the rest of the combat. Now I allow a little bit of 3E delaying etc.. but for the most part it's just stable and players roll it up with their actions. If somebody can't post in a few days I roll up their init for them or they stand there picking their nose while the others deal with the threat. Seems to work well and not hold up the game much. Every round of init would slow things down too much I think.

Post Reply

Return to “RPG theory”