Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

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Argennian
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Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#1 Post by Argennian »

Just curious what everyone thinks about this long-time debate/comparison.

There are some out there that live for the role-playing and character immersion. These are folks that prefer to speak IC (In Character) and could be happy to play a full session without rolling any dice. They covet the experience of attempting to actually become their character and at times are even loath to discuss things Above Game or OOC, if it can be accomplished.

There are others that just want to roll the dice and do not favor speaking IC or in the 'first person'. As long as they are rolling the dice, all is good and well and when they are asked for their PC's response or decision, they will just answer "My character will do this/that...". Often times, a roll of the dice is favored for settling things versus having to describe/explain the how/why of a given situation or scenario.


Obviously, as stated, these are two extreme examples and I would submit that most of us would probably fall somewhere in the middle. For me personally, I like the role-playing and character immersion very much but that being said, I certainly can't fault those that don't. After all, it's our shared 'passion for the game' that we all have in common, is it not? As long as we are all having fun and enjoy the game, I don't think anyone is really doing it wrong. My two coppers...


Which of these methods/styles do you prefer? Or do you like/use them both equally? Feel free to share your thoughts and feelings here! :)
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#2 Post by Nuke66 »

Well, they both have their roles I suppose (pun intended).

In a FtF that meets often, a full blown immersion can still get something accomplished. In PbP, you could role play for three weeks between encounters. A meal in an inn could take a week of real time. I envision that type of role play for free-form games.

The games I play in have a variety of paces, but I seem to enjoy a faster pace. Role play the important plot bits, but roll play through the slower parts. Get through content as it were. In order to achieve that, the DM is the key. The pace of DM posts, in terms of game content, is important. I like DMs that push through content, posting encounters, not the three uneventful days of travel. I think that the extenuation circumstances of adventuring also lend more opportunities for character development. I mean how many times do you need to order food for your characters established menu preference to have developed. That being said, feel free to flesh out posts as much as you want. Add any role play elements you want, most people can handle adding character to character lines while still performing the roll play part as well. It doesn't effectively take any more time, nor slow down a good DM.

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#3 Post by ToniXX »

This is a great post, and a great way to start off the new forum.

The FtF group that I play in does more roll-playing than role-playing. But we do the latter when it's necessary, and the former when we're slogging through combat. But we could be better on the role-playing no matter what. Most of the group has also been a DM for the group at one time or another, so we tend to slow down the pace sometimes to stop and talk about rules. This is fine but shouldn't be done during a session. Better saved for discussion over lunch or via email while we should be working!

Nuke66 makes some good points, particularly 'the DM is the key'. I used to be a club DJ, and it was important to 'read' the crowd and play the right tempo songs at the right time. I've seen DJs clear the floor because they insist on playing a song that isn't right for the moment, but they want to hear it. The same goes with DMs. Read the group and understand who's getting antsy or bored, and address that. Give that player some exciting thing to do or figure out, even if it wasn't in the original plan. Which brings me to another point:

DMing is like acting. There's a script but it shouldn't be followed to the letter. It should be improvised, and when it is, it ends up being funner and more interesting for all, even the DM. The unexpected is key. Just like in acting. My wife works in show business, and was in a blockbuster comedy last summer. It had a script but the director really let the actors play with the lines and the roles. What came from it was stuff that was never on the page, but tested great with audiences, and resulted in a very funny movie. DMing is the same. Even if the module published by that venerable TSR author (insert your favorite one here) says to do something but it seems out of place, change it.

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#4 Post by dmw71 »

Argennian wrote:Just curious what everyone thinks about this long-time debate/comparison.

There are some out there that live for the role-playing and character immersion. These are folks that prefer to speak IC (In Character) and could be happy to play a full session without rolling any dice. They covet the experience of attempting to actually become their character and at times are even loath to discuss things Above Game or OOC, if it can be accomplished.

There are others that just want to roll the dice and do not favor speaking IC or in the 'first person'. As long as they are rolling the dice, all is good and well and when they are asked for their PC's response or decision, they will just answer "My character will do this/that...". Often times, a roll of the dice is favored for settling things versus having to describe/explain the how/why of a given situation or scenario.
Without question, I have always fallen into the "roll the dice" category. It's what I have always been comfortable with and the only manner in which I have ever played.

However, having been exposed to play-by-post games (and the many excellent play-by-post players), I have been really impressed with the amount of role playing I've witnessed. It makes me want to become more of a role player, but it's not something that comes naturally to me.

Thinking about it now, I would say that my playing days were 95% roll playing to only 5% role playing. I doubt I'll ever truly be able to bring those ratios to a true 50/50 balance (not that 50/50 is even the ideal -- I don't know?), but I look forward to adding some more spice to the games I play.


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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#5 Post by Alethan »

ToniXX wrote: The first rule of D&D: There are no rules.
I thought the first rule of D&D was that you do not talk about D&D!

Never did understand that one...
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#6 Post by rredmond »

What's the famous Gygax quote in the DMG: These are just a set of guidelines. Or somesuch.

Of course though I'd put the top rule as the DM is always right, but ya know... ;)
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#7 Post by Norjax »

I’ve always preferred roll-playing to role-playing. Some people are better role-players due to personality and/or experience. I seen new players overwhelmed by the role-playing aspects of the game.

I let the dice decide the player characters fate and use ability checks to determine actions not covered by the rules. I will award experience bonuses as a reward for players role-playing their characters. Not a lot, but enough to “encourage” others to follow suit.

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#8 Post by dmw71 »

Norjax wrote:I seen new players overwhelmed by the role-playing aspects of the game.
While not exactly a "new" player (reborn, perhaps), I admit to sucking at role playing. I imagine it will take some practice and getting used to, but play-by-post games, where you have more time to consider your words, is a nice forum for experimentation.


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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#9 Post by Alethan »

dmw71 wrote:
Norjax wrote:I seen new players overwhelmed by the role-playing aspects of the game.
While not exactly a "new" player (reborn, perhaps), I admit to sucking at role playing. I imagine it will take some practice and getting used to, but play-by-post games, where you have more time to consider your words, is a nice forum for experimentation.
PbP makes it MUCH easier to add more role-playing to your game.

FtF role-playing can start feeling like LARP, which I'm certainly not comfortable with. But this is just writing. ;)
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#10 Post by Argennian »

Alethan wrote:
dmw71 wrote:
Norjax wrote:I seen new players overwhelmed by the role-playing aspects of the game.
While not exactly a "new" player (reborn, perhaps), I admit to sucking at role playing. I imagine it will take some practice and getting used to, but play-by-post games, where you have more time to consider your words, is a nice forum for experimentation.
PbP makes it MUCH easier to add more role-playing to your game.

FtF role-playing can start feeling like LARP, which I'm certainly not comfortable with. But this is just writing. ;)


Ha! No LARPing at the game table! :o


Certainly agree that the PbP game is a great forum to experiment with and does really offer the opportunity for that additional character immersion. I love role-playing but I'm certainly no LARPer! :) But being able to write and really describe what your PC is saying, doing, thinking, feeling is bloody brilliant and offers a depth to every character that could otherwise not be accomplished, imho (not even by LARPing! :D )
Yosef Travathas: High Elf Fighter4/Magic-User3 (rredmond's Pacesetter Games "Legacy of the Unknown" OSRIC Playtest)
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Tanik Tremwoodak: Dwarf Cleric3 (Dave's 1e Skype Game)

DM: home-brew OSRIC "A New Hope to the West" campaign

Fireball... good!!

"What's it gonna take?"
"Everything."
tkrexx as Emm the Avenging Druid wrote:I shall burn you, and I shall sink your petty warship with fire and lightning, and the ocean shall swallow it and all aboard, and no one will remember any of you!

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#11 Post by onlyme »

Happen to see this thread while checking on updates...

I am a mutt, I guess. I love the character development aspect of role-playing, especially in pbp games, and when in town/on the trail, walking down a corridor, etc. But, once a battle has commenced, I want quick move/roll/move/roll type of posts...
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#12 Post by Rukellian »

DnD is just as much of an escape from reality as it is entertaining. I cannot help but lose count the number of times I've looked forward to a session, PbP or real-time get-together. In regards to role-playing versus roll-playing, I'm more of a role-playing kind of guy. Like I said, I look forward to the role-playing element of DnD because it is an oppurtunity to excercise a different part of me, bringing out a personality that seldom comes out in real life day-to-day events. I can easily get lost in a character, in a good way of course. But then again, note that I'm also relatively new at all of this, so maybe I will adopt more of a roller attitude in the future, don't know.
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#13 Post by Hrafn »

Argennian wrote:Just curious what everyone thinks about this long-time debate/comparison.

There are some out there that live for the role-playing and character immersion. These are folks that prefer to speak IC (In Character) and could be happy to play a full session without rolling any dice. They covet the experience of attempting to actually become their character and at times are even loath to discuss things Above Game or OOC, if it can be accomplished.

There are others that just want to roll the dice and do not favor speaking IC or in the 'first person'. As long as they are rolling the dice, all is good and well and when they are asked for their PC's response or decision, they will just answer "My character will do this/that...". Often times, a roll of the dice is favored for settling things versus having to describe/explain the how/why of a given situation or scenario.


Obviously, as stated, these are two extreme examples and I would submit that most of us would probably fall somewhere in the middle. For me personally, I like the role-playing and character immersion very much but that being said, I certainly can't fault those that don't. After all, it's our shared 'passion for the game' that we all have in common, is it not? As long as we are all having fun and enjoy the game, I don't think anyone is really doing it wrong. My two coppers...


Which of these methods/styles do you prefer? Or do you like/use them both equally? Feel free to share your thoughts and feelings here! :)
I've found these are not really two approaches to a homogenous field that is Role Playing Games. Rather they are spectrum ends. Look at different systems and you'll see how each one conditions you toward one end or the other; old school D&D and games like ACKS, where you roll flat stats, in order, etc., and are encouraged to put your wits to the test encourage "roll play", because the very mechanics are designed to make a unit in your retinue and march them forward. Compare to later canes like WoD or 3.5/4e, where you will see mechanisms to balance the party across all class/race combinations and you are encouraged to flesh out a concept even before rolling or assigning any numbers, a sure "role play" design your Mask scene if ever there was one.

There's really not a difference between the two, though. Or rather, they are not mutually exclusive.
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#14 Post by Blazeguard »

Currently I'm DMing for my kids and they just like to roll the dice but I'd like to try to encourage at least a little role-playing. For myself I lean more towards the roll-playing end of the spectrum as well, probably because I think I completely suck at role-playing. Maybe if I was able to play in a FtF game I might get better at it but as long as I'm having fun that's all that matters, right?

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#15 Post by Hrafn »

Blazeguard wrote:Currently I'm DMing for my kids and they just like to roll the dice but I'd like to try to encourage at least a little role-playing. For myself I lean more towards the roll-playing end of the spectrum as well, probably because I think I completely suck at role-playing. Maybe if I was able to play in a FtF game I might get better at it but as long as I'm having fun that's all that matters, right?
Heh. I've found PbP is were role play shines. Every time it's your turn? Write a novel :)
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#16 Post by Alethan »

Hrafn wrote:
Blazeguard wrote:Currently I'm DMing for my kids and they just like to roll the dice but I'd like to try to encourage at least a little role-playing. For myself I lean more towards the roll-playing end of the spectrum as well, probably because I think I completely suck at role-playing. Maybe if I was able to play in a FtF game I might get better at it but as long as I'm having fun that's all that matters, right?
Heh. I've found PbP is were role play shines. Every time it's your turn? Write a novel :)
Ohhhh, I don't know about EVERY time.

There are certainly occasions when a verbose post is called for. But if too many people do them too often, it can tend to bog the game down.*

Indeed, one element of good writing is to say what you want to say, exactly how you want to say it, in as few words as possible. It's something I constantly struggle with when writing. Over the last two years, I've tempered my writing a lot here on Unseen Servant. It has helped me in other writing aspects of my life.

Every now and then I get to write up something grand, like when one of my characters is telling a story around a camp fire. But, for the most part, I try to write enough to do what I want to do and say what I want to say, with enough flair to keep it in-character, and keep the action flowing.

But the bottom line is, of course, play how you like... as long as it doesn't intentionally mess up someone else's game.



*Obviously, this is simply my opinion. Yours can certainly vary.
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#17 Post by dmw71 »

Hrafn wrote:Heh. I've found PbP is were role play shines.
Agreed. Some 20+ years ago when I originally played, it was pure hack-and-slash and almost exclusively roll playing. It wasn't until I discovered play-by-post games last year that I began to adopt a more role playing mentality, and I think there's a time and place for both.
onlyme wrote:I love the character development aspect of role-playing, especially in pbp games, and when in town/on the trail, walking down a corridor, etc. But, once a battle has commenced, I want quick move/roll/move/roll type of posts...
This.


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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#18 Post by Hrafn »

Alethan wrote: Ohhhh, I don't know about EVERY time.

There are certainly occasions when a verbose post is called for. But if too many people do them too often, it can tend to bog the game down.*

Indeed, one element of good writing is to say what you want to say, exactly how you want to say it, in as few words as possible. It's something I constantly struggle with when writing. Over the last two years, I've tempered my writing a lot here on Unseen Servant. It has helped me in other writing aspects of my life.

Every now and then I get to write up something grand, like when one of my characters is telling a story around a camp fire. But, for the most part, I try to write enough to do what I want to do and say what I want to say, with enough flair to keep it in-character, and keep the action flowing.

But the bottom line is, of course, play how you like... as long as it doesn't intentionally mess up someone else's game.
Certainly, purple prose for the sake of purple prose is generally bad. You also need to account for the game you're playing – D&D and it's ilk don't lend themselves to it as much because the rounds are important, the turns, and everything between that is officially 'downtime'. But instead of "rothfar makes a potion this week" a small vignette of cutting open a white dove after feeding it a bowl of snake skin and trolls blood, and maybe smirking if the barbarian knew how much o this went into the healin he chugged so frequently, that usually adds to the ambience.

It also depends on the audience. I have a game elsewhere with three aspiring authors (two of whom are all-but-published) and the needs are different. I can't compete on a sheer English language proficiency level, so instead I purposefully use purple prose, making word blocks cluttered, flustered, panicked, flighty and nigh-hysterical, because it fits the character and gives a sense of frustration and despair when read – the PbP equivalent of actually going into hysterics at the table. Of course, I've also got a game where any individual post is just facial expression, statement, maybe a roll, and subtext in spoilers for high-empathy characters. It's as much playing your role to wire a certain way as it is to write certain things, I suppose is where I'm going with this? Rather circuitously, unfortunately.

I've definitely improved in both writing and Roleplay since I've take up PbP though, if only because the venue makes me think about them both. And a PbP game is often a great place to experiment, if the group is cool with it. :)
I love the character development aspect of role-playing, especially in pbp games, and when in town/on the trail, walking down a corridor, etc. But, once a battle has commenced, I want quick move/roll/move/roll type of posts...
Definitely. Writing a novel doesn't mean not lettin others get a word in edgewise! Short, quick posts are superior, unless you have a slow game. Odds are, if you have fast return, you'll get a novel out anyway system everyone just swinging and dodging.
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#19 Post by Alethan »

All well-said, Hrafn!
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#20 Post by Fearghus »

ToniXX wrote:The first rule of D&D: There are no rules. The second rule: The DM is always right.
Brilliant. I didn't learn this until the mid 90's when I started playing story-teller games by White-wolf.

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