Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#21 Post by Hrafn »

Alethan wrote:All well-said, Hrafn!
Thank you! :oops:
Fearghus wrote:
ToniXX wrote:The first rule of D&D: There are no rules. The second rule: The DM is always right.
Brilliant. I didn't learn this until the mid 90's when I started playing story-teller games by White-wolf.
Aye. I think the trick is to remove the adversarial paradigm; in D&D the DM must earn trust from the players before they will let story stuf happen without quibbling. In white wolf, If you guys don't trust the storyteller, you just don't play with him.
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#22 Post by Vargr1105 »

Gentlemen, I love and respect you all but let me just say that IMHO the amount of bullshite on this thread is starting to reek. It is not all 100% bullshit but it qualifies for prime, grade-A, genuine shite of bull with flying colors and FDA seal of approval non the less.

Who the hell though it was a good idea to start *another* thread on a gaming forum about this false dichotomy of fallacious terms that means nothing leads nowhere and has done so since the very beginning of the game?

I though the hobby was 40 years old and had outgrown counting how many angels can dance on the head of a pin while navel-gazing for no reason or purpose whatsoever.

Apparently I was wrong.

:ugeek:

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#23 Post by Hrafn »

Vargr1105 wrote:Gentlemen, I love and respect you all but let me just say that IMHO the amount of bullshite on this thread is starting to reek. It is not all 100% bullshit but it qualifies for prime, grade-A, genuine shite of bull with flying colors and FDA seal of approval non the less.

Who the hell though it was a good idea to start *another* thread on a gaming forum about this false dichotomy of fallacious terms that means nothing leads nowhere and has done so since the very beginning of the game?

I though the hobby was 40 years old and had outgrown counting how many angels can dance on the head of a pin while navel-gazing for no reason or purpose whatsoever.

Apparently I was wrong.

:ugeek:
*shrug* a lady needs a hobby.
Besides, it's easy to declare these are things with no meaning that lead nowhere, but we have clear examples of differences. The only fallacy is the idea that they are different teams to root for; it's no more strange than a bunch of people declaring undying loyalty to a sports team run like a company with members from everywhere but the home city.
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#24 Post by ToniXX »

Fearghus wrote:
ToniXX wrote:The first rule of D&D: There are no rules. The second rule: The DM is always right.
Brilliant. I didn't learn this until the mid 90's when I started playing story-teller games by White-wolf.
Re-reading my quoted line makes me laugh, but I still stand by it. I know nothing of Whitewolf, as I only play D&D.

To clarify that second rule: The DM is always right, BUT, he must be a benevolent dictator at the table. He isn't always right just because he wants to make sure that rust monster rusts the cleric's +3 mace. He's always right because he wants to maintain the pace of the game and quench any possible arguments. Splitting hairs, especially when life and death are not in the balance, wastes everyone's time.
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#25 Post by Alethan »

Our goal here at The Unseen Servant is to provide a helpful and supportive forum for RPG games and RPG-related discussions. Just because some may not find validity in a certain topic, that does not make it an invalid topic. Therefore, we encourage most any discussion, as long as it is tasteful and pertains to RPGs.

The industry may be 40 years old, but by no means has every player been involved in it since its inception. There is still an influx of people just starting to play RPGs to this day, and we should all celebrate that, for it keeps the industry fresh and alive! There is also a significant number of people who are just now finding the PbP venue after having not played for many years. I was such a player.

Thus, to many people, a discussion of (insert topic here) is not just another thread on an over-talked about topic. It is a concept they might not have thought about up to this point. It is a new approach to an idea they struggled with in the past. It is a chance to present their equally valid opinion to other players of the game.

So I say discuss away! :)
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#26 Post by hedgeknight »

Vargr1105 wrote:while navel-gazing for no reason or purpose whatsoever.
I live at the beach and practic navel-gazing as often as possible! :P
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#27 Post by AQuebman »

hedgeknight wrote:
Vargr1105 wrote:while navel-gazing for no reason or purpose whatsoever.
I live at the beach and practic navel-gazing as often as possible! :P
I can't speak for you but navels are not what i'm looking at :lol:

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#28 Post by AQuebman »

Alethan wrote:
Hrafn wrote:
Blazeguard wrote:Currently I'm DMing for my kids and they just like to roll the dice but I'd like to try to encourage at least a little role-playing. For myself I lean more towards the roll-playing end of the spectrum as well, probably because I think I completely suck at role-playing. Maybe if I was able to play in a FtF game I might get better at it but as long as I'm having fun that's all that matters, right?
Heh. I've found PbP is were role play shines. Every time it's your turn? Write a novel :)
Ohhhh, I don't know about EVERY time.

There are certainly occasions when a verbose post is called for. But if too many people do them too often, it can tend to bog the game down.*

Indeed, one element of good writing is to say what you want to say, exactly how you want to say it, in as few words as possible. It's something I constantly struggle with when writing. Over the last two years, I've tempered my writing a lot here on Unseen Servant. It has helped me in other writing aspects of my life.

Every now and then I get to write up something grand, like when one of my characters is telling a story around a camp fire. But, for the most part, I try to write enough to do what I want to do and say what I want to say, with enough flair to keep it in-character, and keep the action flowing.

But the bottom line is, of course, play how you like... as long as it doesn't intentionally mess up someone else's game.



*Obviously, this is simply my opinion. Yours can certainly vary.
I definitely agree with this I think Alethan you and I have seen this in our game with Hedge where most of it is relatively quick posts but we have had a few of our around the campfire long drawn out posts to tell a story or to dig deeper into a character's personality. I look at it like my personal life where most of my conversations are brief and meaningless but a few times a year I have long drawn out deep conversations that dig deep into the soul of who I am as a person and my beliefs etc... That's how I try to setup my games at least in PbP because that feels very authentic.

Nobody is doing it wrong though, it's an RPG do what you want and play with who makes you have fun plain and simple, end of story.

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#29 Post by ToniXX »

AQuebman wrote:Nobody is doing it wrong though, it's an RPG do what you want and play with who makes you have fun plain and simple, end of story.
This. 8-)
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#30 Post by hedgeknight »

AQuebman wrote:
hedgeknight wrote:
Vargr1105 wrote:while navel-gazing for no reason or purpose whatsoever.
I live at the beach and practic navel-gazing as often as possible! :P
I can't speak for you but navels are not what i'm looking at :lol:
Nice! And neither was I last night at an outdoor social gathering with music, drinks, etc. I wish you had been with me > my wife's ribs are sore and she kept slapping me every time I said, "Good lord, look at that!" :mrgreen:

What was this thread about again? Oh yeah > I prefer about 75% roll-playing and 25% role-playing in my games, but whatever works for the DM and his/her players is best. Just be up front with the type of game you want to run and you will attract those type of players (at least most of the time).
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#31 Post by AQuebman »

hedgeknight wrote: What was this thread about again? Oh yeah > I prefer about 75% roll-playing and 25% role-playing in my games, but whatever works for the DM and his/her players is best. Just be up front with the type of game you want to run and you will attract those type of players (at least most of the time).
That surprises me to hear that considering how much role playing we do in your campaign. Though you do keep the action high so I guess that shows through pretty clearly.

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#32 Post by hedgeknight »

AQuebman wrote:
hedgeknight wrote: What was this thread about again? Oh yeah > I prefer about 75% roll-playing and 25% role-playing in my games, but whatever works for the DM and his/her players is best. Just be up front with the type of game you want to run and you will attract those type of players (at least most of the time).
That surprises me to hear that considering how much role playing we do in your campaign. Though you do keep the action high so I guess that shows through pretty clearly.
You're right, but I think we do role-playing "in game" meaning, you guys are role-playing all the time > on the trail, tracking down a missing king, hunting a rare cure for lycanthropy, or sitting around a barbarian's fire after a few rounds of boxing. You guys are awesome!
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#33 Post by Alethan »

hedgeknight wrote: You guys are awesome!
He does have a point there...
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#35 Post by Hrafn »

hedgeknight wrote:
AQuebman wrote:
hedgeknight wrote: What was this thread about again? Oh yeah > I prefer about 75% roll-playing and 25% role-playing in my games, but whatever works for the DM and his/her players is best. Just be up front with the type of game you want to run and you will attract those type of players (at least most of the time).
That surprises me to hear that considering how much role playing we do in your campaign. Though you do keep the action high so I guess that shows through pretty clearly.
You're right, but I think we do role-playing "in game" meaning, you guys are role-playing all the time > on the trail, tracking down a missing king, hunting a rare cure for lycanthropy, or sitting around a barbarian's fire after a few rounds of boxing. You guys are awesome!
Synergy and overlap?

I think this clearly demonstrates the lie of binary thinking. No one really noticed that you an Roleplay while you roll play, until its pointed out!
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#36 Post by rredmond »

Heh. I was thinking, even though I deem myself more of a "roll" player than a "role" player kind of DM, I keep a lot of my behind the DM screen rolls to myself, because (if the person is careful enough in their description) sometimes I don't even roll, or I only roll for a critical fail. I recently did this with a trapped chest in the Shroom game.
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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#37 Post by whattime »

Personally, I have a bit of trouble with a very detailed fiction for my character down to where this tiny scar came from and his relationship with his second cousin and so on in a game that otherwise doesn't tend towards simulationism. Not that I want to simulate everything, but the difference in attention and detail bothers me. I'd rather see a pretty detailed world (at least, the detail of my immediate surroundings) and have my character be a kind of avatar through which I can interact with that world, rather than my character as a kind of fictional character that I'm responsible for.

It's an interesting tension in the hobby.

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#38 Post by Paladin »

Hmm. I suppose I favor both...

When I begin, a character is a blank slate. I know nothing about him and spend no time creating a life story. We just jump in and roll some bones.

Through adventures with his new companions, he'll naturally fall into some role within the group--usually the prankster. Someone is the intelligent one, someone the talker, someone the curious/nosey one. Our personalities come through and get bound up in the characters over time.

For me, that's when roll-playing and role-playing begin to blend. The dice, the situations we've been through at the table, and our own personality traits have created a shared history for the group and for each character within it. They take on lives of their own.

It has to develop organically, for me. I hate an endless series of dice rolls with no emotional investment. But I equally dislike being told to type a page-long backstory on my fresh level 1 fighter who doesn't even have a name. Got to let it develop over time.

Or not. A group can function fine and satisfy both types of player during the same session.

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Re: Role-playing vs Roll-playing?

#39 Post by Leitz »

I like to come to the game with the character already having emotional energy, and ways to describe that. Often the energy is inspired by the stats and skills in a rolled game, or by playing off the other characters in a "design your character" style game. PbP is great for me because I can ponder the options. Often my first few choices need to be tossed out, it's too easy to get into a rut. At the same time, while my character will have energy driving them forward, how that gets interpreted in the game usually changes as the character interacts with the setting, the other characters, and NPCs.

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