TPK Total Party Kill

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GreyWolfVT
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TPK Total Party Kill

#1 Post by GreyWolfVT »

As a DM has anyone ever gotten to the point where they are saying to themselves "Hmm maybe killing off the whole party will prevent this from dragging out and the game dying off?" albeit a grant and epic battle to the death but at least it will add some life back into the players perhaps. Granted as a player I would be immediately asking the DM "Can I make a new character? I want to play this out to the end." so it is a bit of a toss up I don't want to ruin anyone's fun or experience but perhaps an epic battle is what is needed to pick things up. It's hard to say in a long running game where not everyone appears to be up to posting regularly unless there is a battle scene. What would you do?
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AleBelly
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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#2 Post by AleBelly »

Personally, I'm not one to avoid TPKs at all costs, but I don't want to specifically create them, either. If a game is waning, I think it's time to chat with the players and find out what the root cause is. If it can be addressed, then do it. If not, then I would just end the game. An epic battle wouldn't be a bad way to do so if it can fit well within the story.

But I stress that my first step would be to talk to the players...

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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#3 Post by Keehnelf »

I definitely don't shy away from TPK situations myself, but I think they're an inappropriate tool for reviving or ending a game unless the fight itself is suitably dramatic and narratively appropriate. I.e. Against the big bad at the end of a scenario with the failure of the quest, then you as GM provide a suitably clean narrative wrap-up.

Granted, I've had my share of games fizzle, but I don't think they're worse for not having a TPK at the end.

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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#4 Post by GreyWolfVT »

alright well as I said I don't generally just end a game or close it but i feel in one case so far the game end is very near but very little action unless in a fight appears the game may be over before it really is completed and I wanted to at least let it go out with a bang instead of just more replacement players or anything like that.
“All men did have darkness. Some wore it in the form of horns. Some bore it invisibly as rot in their souls.”
― Paul S. Kemp, Shadowbred
"If good people won’t do the hard things, evil people will always win, because evil people will do anything."
― Paul S. Kemp, Twilight Falling

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Dalin Silverhand Dwarf Thief - Barrowmaze
Elwood 'Dug' The Bounty Hunter Dwarf Swashbuckler - Hedge's Adventures in the World of Golarion
Roan Gravelbeard Dwarf Fighter - Hedge's Greyhawk Adventures
Torvik Shadowhood Dwarf Fighter/Thief - Nocturne
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Alethan
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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#5 Post by Alethan »

I can't think of any legitimate good reason for intentionally setting the party up for a complete wipe, with absolutely no chance of survival. If I did do that, I should expect at least a good number of the party to figure out this is what happened and anticipate having trouble finding players who wanted to participate in the next game I wanted to run.
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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#6 Post by Zhym »

A TPK should never be a planned event. A situation the players can't get out of may evolve from their actions in the game, but the DM should never be thinking, "And now I will kill the whole party."

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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#7 Post by Keehnelf »

On the other hand, I'm always thinking, "And now I will kill the whole party." Unfortunately for me, they keep being too wily and managing to survive.

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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#8 Post by dmw71 »

Zhym wrote:A TPK should never be a planned event.
This.


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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#9 Post by Grognardsw »

Zhym wrote:A TPK should never be a planned event. A situation the players can't get out of may evolve from their actions in the game, but the DM should never be thinking, "And now I will kill the whole party."
Says the DM of Tomb of Horrors :lol:
dmw71 wrote:
Zhym wrote:A TPK should never be a planned event.
This.
Except if its a troglodyte lair ;)

Seriously, I think it can be planned and to a degree expected by players. My War is Hell: Palace of the Silver Princess and its evil counter campaign The Evil That Men Do set up a good PC party vs. an evil PC party. The end result of which was a party wipe of one group (actually, one of their eight survived - go wolfpack!) Those playing knew the confrontation would come; the tension of the inevitable encounter I think added a nice element.

That said, I generally frown on TPKs.
Last edited by Grognardsw on Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#10 Post by GreyWolfVT »

well at the very least I can sit down in the case of this and see if the players will talk about it to see where everyone else sits. I can manage to start a PC evil party up in the case if need be.
“All men did have darkness. Some wore it in the form of horns. Some bore it invisibly as rot in their souls.”
― Paul S. Kemp, Shadowbred
"If good people won’t do the hard things, evil people will always win, because evil people will do anything."
― Paul S. Kemp, Twilight Falling

Algrim Tirion Dwarf - HarnMaser
Dalin Silverhand Dwarf Thief - Barrowmaze
Elwood 'Dug' The Bounty Hunter Dwarf Swashbuckler - Hedge's Adventures in the World of Golarion
Roan Gravelbeard Dwarf Fighter - Hedge's Greyhawk Adventures
Torvik Shadowhood Dwarf Fighter/Thief - Nocturne
DM - GreyWolf's Mystara Adventures - AD&D 2e

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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#11 Post by dmw71 »

Grognardsw wrote:Except if its a troglodyte lair ;)
Touche'.

However, in my defense, the troglodyte lair was never even in my plans, and only drawn up after the party declared they were going to seek it out. The lack of premeditation is the difference.


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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#12 Post by GreyWolfVT »

alright what if it is a titan's lair or a dragon lair with elder dragons?
“All men did have darkness. Some wore it in the form of horns. Some bore it invisibly as rot in their souls.”
― Paul S. Kemp, Shadowbred
"If good people won’t do the hard things, evil people will always win, because evil people will do anything."
― Paul S. Kemp, Twilight Falling

Algrim Tirion Dwarf - HarnMaser
Dalin Silverhand Dwarf Thief - Barrowmaze
Elwood 'Dug' The Bounty Hunter Dwarf Swashbuckler - Hedge's Adventures in the World of Golarion
Roan Gravelbeard Dwarf Fighter - Hedge's Greyhawk Adventures
Torvik Shadowhood Dwarf Fighter/Thief - Nocturne
DM - GreyWolf's Mystara Adventures - AD&D 2e

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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#13 Post by Zhym »

Depends on how much choice the players have in whether to go there and whether they have a fair clue about what would await them.

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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#14 Post by Alethan »

The OP was regarding killing off an entire party intentionally because of issues with the game, not designing an adventure that is extremely difficult and may frequently result in TPKs.

They are two very different things.
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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#15 Post by rredmond »

In OD&D you can meet up with an Ancient Red Dragon when the party was first level.
In older school games there was no (RULE 3 CENSOR) balancing encounters. You had to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run... like hell.
This is a game about killing things and taking their stuff so you can become more powerful in order to kill bigger things and take even better stuff.
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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#16 Post by hedgeknight »

Grognardsw wrote:Seriously, I think it can be planned and to a degree expected by players. My War is Hell: Palace of the Silver Princess and its evil counter campaign The Evil That Men Do set up a good PC party vs. an evil PC party. The end result of which was a party wipe of one group (actually, one of their eight survived - go wolfpack!) Those playing knew the confrontation would come; the tension of the inevitable encounter I think added a nice element.
From a player's pov, it sure was a fun way to die! :mrgreen:

To set up a TPK as a means of restarting a game is not cool. It's a cop out. Players know it when they see it (or are in it) and I imagine it would hurt your credibility as a DM for future games. Talk to your players, man. Talk to them. Work it out and wrap it up in some other way.
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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#17 Post by Magnus »

Keehnelf wrote:On the other hand, I'm always thinking, "And now I will kill the whole party." Unfortunately for me, they keep being too wily and managing to survive.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#18 Post by MonkeyWrench »

As a player in Grognards game the inevitable PVP of the evil group did add a nice spice to it, especially since I was on the winning side 8-)

As a player who played and then died in the game I know you're talking about GW I'd say it'd be a regret to TPK it, talk to the players and see what the rest of them want to do, if the game still fizzles out then that's what it does, no shame in it when dealing with the beast that is PbP. Games fail, it happens, but premeditated TPK's is always an abuse of power by the storyteller.
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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#19 Post by Paladin »

Speaking for myself, I have no problem with TPK's. On either side of the table.

I mostly play OD&D, so characters drop routinely and new ones can be rolled up in a couple of minutes and get right back in the action. My enjoyment comes from exploring the ref's world. The character is just a vehicle for that exploration. So if one dies, another will suit me just as well.

But if the ref is just over it and is ending the game, giving your character a glorious death is half the fun. :lol:

All that to say...it wouldn't hurt my feelings. But you know your players better than I do. That approach definitely isn't for everyone.

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Re: TPK Total Party Kill

#20 Post by rredmond »

Firstly, love the thread necromancy!
Secondly I’m pretty sure I’ve talks about my 1HP OD&D cleric before, great times!!
Holy Schmidt actually made 2nd level before biting it in a wandering monster encounter- gnoll. :D
This is a game about killing things and taking their stuff so you can become more powerful in order to kill bigger things and take even better stuff.
Alethan: I'm good with NOT pressing our luck this time.
mjulius: That's how I know I'm home.
Pulpatoon: The whole point of PbP is to take the scheduling pressure off the game. We're just chatty because we're so eager!
Scott308: ...everyone should be reminded of just how wonderful the people they play games with here can be in real life.
Leitz: Quality and quantity wise, I think US is the best I've seen.
Paladin: I can promise terror, glory, and riches...or a quick and brutal death.
Inferno: Come on! That's was Vicar's Head, a completely different doomed village!

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