They Who Dwell in Shadow (ooc and questions lll)

[OGRE MAGE]

See? That's why he hardly ever laughs! He's just self-conscious!

Incidentally, I am enjoying this little side drama very much. I hope there are no hard feelings over it from anyone.

But, we probably should be going sometime soon.

[Zhym]

Incidentally, I am enjoying this little side drama very much. I hope there are no hard feelings over it from anyone.

Certainly there are none on my end!

I thought we were going to get out of the standoff with nothing more than harsh words until Hoom threw the "H" word around.

[DadsAngry]

I thought we were going to get out of the standoff with nothing more than harsh words until Hoom threw the "H" word around.

It got you to move away from the doorway and a chance for me to get by. I didn't think your Lawful Good character would strike and unarmed fleeing person in the back.

[Zhym]

Well, there was also Grothnak's suspicion that Hoom is working for the other side. He has managed to spend quite a bit of time away from the rest of the party, after all.

He might also be working out some issues thinking Hoom got Verity killed. Grothnak's got a lot going on, is what I'm saying.

Also, this was my post in Grothnak's private thread:

Grothnak knocks Hoom out from behind when the coward turns his back to him.

Vadok (Halberd +1) (THAC0 18): [1d20+2] = 12+2 = 14, Dmg [1d10+4] = 10+4 = 14 (S/M) [2d6+4] = 2+4 = 6 (L)

+2 for attacking from the rear. Which would ordinarily be dishonorable, but one may not run from a challenge once issued.

The bit about chasing Hoom down outside was Inferno's interpretation of events. Personally, I have my doubts about a person's ability to run past someone who is threatening him with a halberd.

[Inferno]

It was pretty chaotic. Bo and Pelias were pushing through the door too.

"Now step aside" says Pelias as he pushes past the half-orc.

Grothnak does not budge from blocking the door. He holds the blade of Vadok between himself and the paladin.

[Inferno]

Rredmond hasn't posted on the site in two weeks. I hope he's okay.
ToniXX is still busy in RL.

So I'll NPC them and move things along.

[Zhym]

I wasn't going to make a big deal about this, but the re-interpretation of Grothnak's stated action is affecting the game. I never said that Grothnak would chase someone out of the windmill. I assumed, reasonably I think, that Hoom wouldn't be able to run past Grothnak. How often are you able to run around someone who is facing you and hostile? Having Hoom make it all the way outside and Grothnak chase him down changes the tenor of Grothnak's actions and takes the whole thing outside.

Speaking of which, it hasn't been clear who is outside and who is not. The narration was given as if everyone saw what happened, but in the next update you had conversation going between the windmill and inside. If you're going to have Grothnak running outside, I think we need to know who is where.

Also, this is going to be an insanely busy week for me. I may not have time to post. Please NPC Grothnak as needed.

[Inferno]

Hi,

I assumed, reasonably I think, that Hoom wouldn't be able to run past Grothnak. How often are you able to run around someone who is facing you and hostile?

Grothnak let Hoom run past him, so he could strike Hoom in the back, as per your stated action, here:

Grothnak knocks Hoom out from behind when the coward turns his back to him.
+2 for attacking from the rear.

Grothnak had been standing before the door, blocking anyone from leaving. Hoom is running for the door. Letting Hoom pass him is the only way Grothnak could attack Hoom's back. Once Grothnak lets Hoom pass him, Hoom is in the door frame for a second before he's outside.

Striking (not stabbing) Hoom with a 5'+ long halberd is hard with the doorframe around him (and Pelias and Bo to boot!).

Also, Hoom's action occurs first.
So: Hoom's action is 'run outside.'
Then, Grothnak's action is 'strike him in the back.' The only way that action is possible is to move to him, outside.

Given the slight to his honor, I didn't think beating someone unconscious in the open doorway of the windmill or outside it would matter to Grothnak, who was "almost gleeful" to attack Hoom, at the time.
And if Hoom is a spy and is running away, he had to be stopped.

If it's any consolation, Dads is just as unhappy with the outcome as you are.
I really dislike PvP.

If you're going to have Grothnak running outside, I think we need to know who is where.

It's listed under the map:

1 marks Hoom, Grothnak, Avril and Urdur.
The villagers, the hermit and the other heroes are in or near the windmill at X.
2 is the villager who fled south. 3 is the unknown figure on the road, reported by the lookout.

Bo and Pelias stated they exited the windmill, so they are "near the windmill at X."
And from Scott's last post, it's easy to assume Ingrid moved to "1."

Also, the windmill door is open, so communication is possible.

[Zhym]

Grothnak let Hoom run past him, so he could strike Hoom in the back

That was not my intent. I assumed that Hoom was fleeing combat, which allows a free attack as if attacking a stunned opponent from behind (DMG p. 70). Thus any attack by Grothnak would be "from behind." I did not mean to imply that Grothnak would wait to attack from behind.

Given the slight to his honor, I didn't think beating someone unconscious inside the windmill or outside would matter to Grothnak, who was "almost gleeful" to attack Hoom, at the time.

Well, that's another DM embellishment to Grothnak's stated action: "beating someone unconscious" implies multiple attacks. Grothnak attacked once, which happened to be a max damage roll.

Yeah, Grothnak attacked. After being challenged (or are we going to pretend that the "half-blood" and "you have no honor" comments, made after Grothnak had stepped aside, were anything other than an attempt to provoke?). He was "almost gleeful" that Hoom had issued the challenge. Then Hoom ran from it. Hell yeah, Grothnak attacked. But my post did not say that Grothnak would have chased Hoom outside, nor should he have needed to. BtB, Grothnak's attack should have been made at the point where Hoom tried to run past him. That was my expectation when I posted that Grothnak attacked from behind, anyway.

[Inferno]

Hi,
Hoom wasn't escaping a melee. The melee hadn't begun when he moved.

In fact the melee doesn't begin until "when the coward shows his back to" Grothnak.

It was clear Grothnak was blocking the door and Hoom was trying to slip around him to go through it when Grothnak said he attacks "from behind" with a +2 to hit "when (Hoom) turns his back."

Those qualifiers mean Grothnak's attack waited until Hoom showed him his back. I'm sorry that what you wrote was not your intent.


Thanks for the heads up about your crazy week. I hope it passes quickly.

[Zhym]

I'm sorry that what you wrote was not your intent.

You might want to re-read what I wrote. I wrote that Grothnak attacks when Hoom's back is turned, which happens as soon as Hoom passes Grothnak. I said nothing about waiting until Hoom had gotten past Grothnak and outside the windmill then chasing Hoom down from behind and beating him into submission. Frankly, I think your opinion of recent events as DM has colored your narration.

I'm sick of this conflict (but OOC and IC). So here's what I propose: if a character doesn't get a free attack on someone trying to run past him, then Hoom amazingly escaped through the crowded exit and we reset to just past that point.

[Inferno]

Hi,

Well, that's another DM embellishment to Grothnak's stated action: "beating someone unconscious" implies multiple attacks.

Fyi, DMG p. 61 says a one minute combat round means multiple strikes are encompassed in one attack roll to earn that damage roll result.

I wrote that Grothnak attacks when Hoom's back is turned, which happens as soon as Hoom passes Grothnak.

I'm glad that at least we agree that Grothnak let Hoom get past him.

Now, Grothnak's back was to the door, blocking anyone from leaving the windmill, right? So once Grothnak lets Hoom pass him, Hoom is in the doorway of the windmill for a second before he's outside.

Swinging at Hoom (as opposed to thrusting/stabbing) with a 5'+ long halberd is hard with the doorframe around him (and Pelias and Bo to boot!).

Again, given the slight to his honor, I honestly didn't think hitting someone in the open doorway of the windmill vs. outside it would make much difference to Grothnak, who was "almost gleeful" to attack Hoom, at the time. (This was not a slur. I only raised it as a clear indication of Grothnak's mindset and determination to avenge his honor.) And again, if Hoom is a spy and is running away, he had to be stopped, right?

Are you saying that hitting Hoom unconscious in the open doorway of the windmill, vs. 35 feet from that doorway, is what you are contesting?

[AleBelly]

Hi - I'LL be AFK until at least Friday. Please NPC Pleiades as needed.

[Inferno]

Thanks for the heads up, Ale Belly.

That means anyone that's gonna post has posted. Moving it along.

[OGRE MAGE]

Can we assume that Hoom is back up and moving now?

[DadsAngry]

Nope you knocked him silly, you have to carry him.

[Inferno]

Can we assume that Hoom is back up and moving now?

No. He is not conscious.

[ChubbyPixie]

Helloooooo? Anyone?

C'mon, fellows. Don't let me down. I'm counting on you to let me fulfill my dream of fighting a pretend turtle. Maybe everybody just needs a cool-down after all the craziness. That's fine and understandable. A testament to how into this game we all are. But think about it, we could even say screw the adventure resolution and just all settle down together in a hollowed out turtle shell house in the swamp, alien snaketopus men be damned!

I beg you. Let me realize my turtle dreams.

[Inferno]

Helloooooo? Anyone?

Hi Pixie,
Ale and Zhym let us know in this thread that they wouldn't be posting much this week.
Rredmond and Tonixx remain silent on the Unseen Servant forum, for a while now.
Dads' Hoom is unconscious.
Everyone else posted.

I'll get my DM post done today.

Btw, I shared the back of the module image only because I wasn't planning on using this wandering monster turtle. Too comical and not spooky enough.
That said, if there is enough pro-tortoise consensus, I'll reconsider this rash decision.
We could probably use some comic relief before That Which Is About To Come.

[DadsAngry]

Gamara is really neat. He filled with turtle meat. We all love you Gamara.