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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:03 am 
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Sorry Fingolwyn I fell asleep before your second post could be approved.
You’re all good and in now. Welcome all!
Looks like this will be a good game.
—Ron—

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:33 am 
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Oh, dang! I love Holmes and Blueholme, and have wanted to play an M-U loaded down with bandoliers of scrolls for the longest time. However, my posting availability is pretty low for the foreseeable. What sort of post rate are you hoping for?

(And, for what it's worth, I heartily approve of the party getting as off-the-wall as possible. It's all part of the character of Holmes!)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:55 am 
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How are we handling character creation? Stat rolling etc...


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:22 am 
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Hi all :)

Yes, my intention is to run a play by forum game here. I would hope we could commit to posting every 1-2 days (though I would love to say daily, I don't think I can maintain that consistently, but feel that much slower than every 2 days starts to feel very slow).

Mechanically, there is a dice roller well integrated with the forum that we will use for rolling. My instinct is to set up macros for everybody and just roll the dice on my end, but I have no objection to people doing it themselves and posting the links to their rolls in their action posts if they want.

We will use the Barrowmaze pantheon, which consists of an old set of nature gods and a new set of civilization gods that are worshipped in the area.

Though wacky stuff is fine, I do tend to lean towards wanting it to be maybe a *bit* of that mixed in with mostly normal stuff. That said, ya know, I don't object to the wacky stuff.

Pulpatoon, if this gets moving well, and you want to join later, you'd be welcome.

On character creation, by the book is 3d6 in order. Especially given the restrictive swapping rules, "arrange to taste" doesn't sound right. A compromise (from acks) is to get several in order sets of rolls, and pick one. How does that sound?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:44 am 
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Picking from multiple sets is a good method!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:10 pm 
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drpete wrote:
Pulpatoon, if this gets moving well, and you want to join later, you'd be welcome.


Sounds good! Good luck getting the game rolling! I look forward to checking in on it when the decks clear.

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Salt Peter, sailor, The North Spine Campaign (LL)
Jiminy Gurglesquelch, shoggoth, Tales of the Gam'A Zone (Mutant Future)
Abijah Dun, warrior, The Monastery at Dimwater (1ed)
Coat-of-Nine-Hides, beast-master, A Company of Corpses (B/X)
Brother Dumphey, cleric, A Company of Corpses (B/X)

WEBCOMIC!==>>The Mummy's Sabbatical
Gaming blog==>> An Abominable Fancy


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:49 pm 
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are we using the dice roller here?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Hi Jason,

Yes, we will use the unseen servant dice roller... I'll set up a campaign id, etc, soon.

As for people who seem to be in the game at the moment:
jasonzavoda (dwarf fighter)
Piper
leafcutter (human cleric)
Fingolwyn (if it doesn't get too weird)

Lurking:
Vile (ya sure ya don't want to join? :) )
Pulpatoon

That seems like enough to start getting things rolling, but I don't think there's a need to cut it off yet, if there are others interested...


Last edited by drpete on Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:21 pm 
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Vile wrote:
Hello, BLUEHOLME author here! I'll lurk if you don't mind, this sounds interesting. :)

Blackrazor, you listed a few creatures there which don't appear in BLUEHOLME, and beholders are not available under the OGL. The monster list is taken entirely from the Blue Book (Holmes Basic) and anything Dr Holmes mentioned in his other writing. I'd love to see a dreenoi in action, though. ;)

Fingolwyn, remember that level progression for 2-class combinations really only lags 1 level behind single classes.


Right. I was thinking more that, because you need the XP for both classes before you level either of them, a fighting magic user would take a lot longer to level...almost as long (at around 4500XP) as what it would take to raise a thief (the easiest class to level) to 4th level. And since PBP XP accumulation is usually very slow due to the slow pace of the game (posting), a fighting magic user might never level, or get past 2nd level. But, assuming we're using BTB THAC0 and d6 for all weapon damage, that's not much of an issue. At low level, the difference in level doesn't matter much...just a few hit points and maybe one spell.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:31 pm 
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drpete wrote:
Hi Jason,

Yes, we will use the unseen servant dice roller... I'll set up a campaign id, etc, soon.

As for people who seem to be in the game at the moment:
jasonzavoda
Piper (dwarf fighter)
leafcutter (human cleric)
Fingolwyn (if it doesn't get too weird)

Lurking:
Vile (ya sure ya don't want to join? :) )
Pulpatoon

That seems like enough to start getting things rolling, but I don't think there's a need to cut it off yet, if there are others interested...


Jason is the Dwarf fighter. And it sounds like you and I are on the same page concerning weird/wacky stuff (a little for flavor, with the rest normal, is OK). I just don't want to play in a game where the characters are a dragon, a pixie, a medusa, a giant spider, and an elf fighting magic user. I can't relate to that at all.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:44 pm 
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Hi Fingolwyn,

I totally see where you're coming from. To help speed up level advancement, there'll be extra xp from monsters (100 xp/HD) which might make things move at a somewhat faster clip. I know the arguments about encouraging different behavior, but think this will help...

My plan (and please, weigh in if you feel strongly about this) is to use a modification of the light/medium/heavy damage rule, but *also* to adjust the die rolled to d8 for fighters, d6 for clerics/thieves, and d4 for mages. Medium weapons held in 2 hands (like quarterstaff) will get 2 dice, choose the highest, while heavy weapons will get 2 of the *next higher die type*, take the highest, but only attack once every other round.

Also, as mentioned in the first post, I am pulling together some weapon vs armor type numbers... something simpler than the greyhawk/ad&d systems. I know this is one of those issues that generates a fair amount of heat, but looking at all the specificity of the weapon costs, I wanted to put in something to make the choices different. Essentially, I'd like to slot in a couple of custom systems to see what happens.

The third thing that's a bit non-vanilla that I want to try is a slightly different encumbrance tracking system. We'll keep the unarmored/armored or encumbered/armored and encumbered setup, but there'll be a simple encumbrance system (no coin/pound counting) to figure out how encumbered you are.

And oops, regarding who's who... was zipping along and I guess I didn't read closely enough.

I'll try to get something up in the new forum so we can start figuring things out fairly soon. Not sure it'll be tonight, though. I want to make sure I'm happy with the weapon vs armor numbers, so weapon selection can go ahead.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Ok, added you guys to the campaign group. You can post down there, now.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:38 pm 
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drpete wrote:
Hi Fingolwyn,

I totally see where you're coming from. To help speed up level advancement, there'll be extra xp from monsters (100 xp/HD) which might make things move at a somewhat faster clip. I know the arguments about encouraging different behavior, but think this will help...

My plan (and please, weigh in if you feel strongly about this) is to use a modification of the light/medium/heavy damage rule, but *also* to adjust the die rolled to d8 for fighters, d6 for clerics/thieves, and d4 for mages. Medium weapons held in 2 hands (like quarterstaff) will get 2 dice, choose the highest, while heavy weapons will get 2 of the *next higher die type*, take the highest, but only attack once every other round.


I'm not beholden to the d6 damage rule. I mentioned it because it's one reason why not leveling quickly isn't an issue. At low level a magic user with a dagger and a fighting man with a sword are, offensively, essentially the same in melee. Each does d6 damage, and each hits AC0 with a 19. But it sounds like leveling won't take as long as expected, so not using the d6 rule isn't a problem.

Actually, I'm not fond of the d6 damage rule and prefer some sort of alternate damage mechanic. If a dagger does d6 damage and costs 3gp, and a sword does d6 damage and costs 10gp, then why would anyone ever have a sword? You could buy three daggers for less, use two as missile weapons, and still have something to fight with. Other than the occasional tactical reason (ex. a spearman attacking from above someone unable to attack back because of weapon length), the only reason would be aesthetic ("because swords are cooler than daggers").

One thing I am interested in is seeing how the Touch attack with spells will work using BTB Journeymanne initiative. I'm having difficulty seeing how a spell caster could ever use a Touch attack spell (like Shocking Grasp) beyond a very limited "cast and hope someone engages next round" situation (kinda like a sea mine: arm and hope a ship triggers you). The magic user can't cast when a potential opponent is within 10' (you are considered "engaged" and can't cast when "engaged"). The magic user also can't cast and attack or move in the same round (thus can't cast then move to engage, or move to engage, cast and attack), and casting happens before movement, so the caster essentially has to cast (Rnd 1), then move (Rnd 2), then attack (Rnd 3) (and BTB the spell doesn't last that long, though Vile has mentioned allowing the spell to "linger" for an undetermined number of rounds), OR (as above) the caster has to cast, then hope an opponent engages so the caster can attack next round. BTB it makes me think the process will end up a lot like the Enterprise hitting full reverse running from a Romulan plasma torpedo (the caster casts, then closes, and the opponent backs away from the magic user until the casting dissipates).

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Last edited by Fingolwyn on Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:28 pm 
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Hrmmmm... Shocking Grasp does seem like it has some problems, at least as a "combat" spell. The combat initiative system I'm going to use sort of follows Blueholme, using dexterity initiative, but different types of actions (movement, missile fire, spells) have their own phases, within which that order is followed, rather than a "do everything on your initiative turn" method. The issues with being engaged are the same, but it would allow this handling of the problem... On a round before being engaged, a mage could "ready" the spell. The spell could then be "triggered" at the beginning the next round, and the mage could then move and attack/try to grab.

Right now, I'm sort of staring at the heavy weapon dps issue, trying to figure out why anyone would use one, and trying to find a fair tweak that will allow them to make sense, but not dominate. It's pretty hard. They need a lot of help to come close to being balanced with 1 handed weapons, while attacking every other round.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:53 pm 
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drpete wrote:
Hrmmmm... Shocking Grasp does seem like it has some problems, at least as a "combat" spell. The combat initiative system I'm going to use sort of follows Blueholme, using dexterity initiative, but different types of actions (movement, missile fire, spells) have their own phases, within which that order is followed, rather than a "do everything on your initiative turn" method. The issues with being engaged are the same, but it would allow this handling of the problem... On a round before being engaged, a mage could "ready" the spell. The spell could then be "triggered" at the beginning the next round, and the mage could then move and attack/try to grab.

Right now, I'm sort of staring at the heavy weapon dps issue, trying to figure out why anyone would use one, and trying to find a fair tweak that will allow them to make sense, but not dominate. It's pretty hard. They need a lot of help to come close to being balanced with 1 handed weapons, while attacking every other round.


From what I've seen, weapon value has to be determined based on more than just damage, such as range, attacks per round, the user's THAC0 and opponents AC, class and level (a higher level fighter with a flail will be better than a cleric with one), and other intangibles. Thus, a heavy crossbow would be more likely to do 6 points of damage than a short bow, and has a better range, and can be loaded and kept "at the ready" (whereas a short bow can only be held "ready to fire" for so long). But even then, is that chance of 6 damage all that much better than three shots for a probable 3-4 damage each (if hits)? Maybe, if you can kill your opponent in one round. After that it depends on the range and other tactical considerations.

Overall though I think the real benefit of the DPS (and combat system in general) is simplicity and ease of use. Once you start tinkering too much with it, it quickly becomes 1e. At most I would assign damage by the weapon classes (Light = d4, Normal = d6, Heavy = d8 and Extra Heavy = d10), use the dual dice best/worst rule and change the number of attacks for everything except heavy crossbow (which would be 1 per 2 rounds) to 1 per round. But that's not very Blueholme.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:26 pm 
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Here's what I'm thinking, looking at this...

Light, 2D, take lower
Normal/Bow, 1D
2H Normal/light crossbow: 2D, take higher. Attack at 1/2 dex
Heavy/Heavy crossbow: +2 to hit, 2D, take higher, for 1 die type higher than normal (d6->d8, say), attack every other round

The combination of higher die types *and* a to-hit bonus makes the Heavy Weapons every other round comparable to Normal Weapons. They do better, on average, when it's hard to hit, and worse, on average, when it's easy to hit.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:20 am 
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are you still up for more characters? I see a few Barrowmaze games started on here, way back to ybn117 and megadave's dungeons. So I didn't get time to play in those but could squeeze another character in and I'll roll 3d6 and chose the best class whatever the divine fates give me. Here's to an eye patch and wooden leg.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:35 am 
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Hey Spearmint,

Sure, the more the merrier! I'll get you added in, give you a set of character rolls, and see you in Helix.


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