OOC IV

[Storm11]

Yeah fine with it. I nominate Yenny, you can always trust the cleric right?

[Zhym]

I've thought before that this game could use a caller, but not thrilled with the idea of a caller in a trap dungeon. I don't want another player speaking for my PC's actions when those actions might trigger a trap or a puzzle—or, conversely, if I were the caller, I wouldn't want him having PCs do things their players wouldn't have them do.

Going back to what I said about trap dungeons going faster because any one PC's action can move things forward, having a caller might actually slow things down if we have to wait for one person to declare actions instead of anyone being able to.

Also, there's a difference between action and moving things (literally) forward. Trying to figure out a trap is action, IMO, even if it doesn't move us through the dungeon quickly. Of course, we don't want to spend the next two years in this dungeon, either (I presume). I'm not sure how to solve that, short of having more clues for the puzzles (with some indication of how dangerous they are, so we know which we can brave without risking death, for example).

For now, I'd suggest going without a caller. After all, inaction is something any PC can solve by, well, acting. IOW: if someone doesn't like that we're spending too much time talking before entering a room, they can always enter the room.

[enn.in.me]

I think one issue with "one person can move things forward" is that eventually the trap will be a fireball or gas cloud that affects all of us. It is the same as a player getting bored with the face trying to talk a way around combat and one of the players launching an attack. The real issue is that it ultimately gives complete control to the player that wants to trip the lever. This can be rather unfun for all the others. I'd much rather see an OOC remark along the lines, "Hey guys, I'm bored of all this yammer and willing to risk my PC (and possibly yours). Anybody mind if Yenny runs into the room/shouts "Hello"/pushes the button/etc.?"

While Yenny does seem trustworthy, I think there are players who have shown themselves to be more together than I am, and caller is really a player role rather than a PC role. I'm willing, but suspect others would be better. Case in point - I haven't even seen the posting that prompted all this, and apparently it has been cleared. I'll look, though....

It might simply be time to have a time limit on posting and an assumption that unposting players' PCs stand idly in the current room until the party goes to the next. This may or may not protect them.

Overall, I trust AleBelly not to screw us. Grumpy players and dead PCs don't make the DM's job any more fun either. It is difficult, though, as DM to make decisions in character for PCs while knowing what lies ahead for them. Normally requires dice. No need to add to his burden.

[ybn1197]

I have to agree with the idea of a caller. This way things are flying around wily-nily and nothing is missed.

[onlyme]

Everyone has good points. Currently, my work load is erratic, and I dont have time to hyper-focus on the minutia that is so critical in step by step puzzle dungeons. That is one reason I love the way this game is unfolding, where AB narrates through the bog-points. Hopefully that syle works for the setting of the prison. Either way, Dandelion is along for a few stabs here or there.

[AleBelly]

Thanks for the discussion. I think these are all good points. Let me clarify my thinking a bit.

I don't want to implement a caller such that the caller becomes a PC and the others are his/her henchmen. The last thing I want to do is take away any individual PC's agency.

So perhaps caller isn't the right word. I'm thinking more along the lines of a PC that suggests a group's course of action, then others riff off of that. In other words, the kernel of a plan. It's a pretty common phenomenon in human nature that the larger a group is, the more likely each individual is to wait for others to act. That, in my opinion, is what has the potential to bog things down. And I think the evidence bears this out...smaller groups tend to act more quickly than larger ones.

We don't even need to designate a specific person for this. Anyone can do this at any time.

I specifically agree with Zhym's point. Action isn't only fighting, and I certainly consider exploration, investigation, etc. to be actions.

So maybe I'll propose this going forward - players (any one of them) should feel free to suggest a more comprehensive plan to get things rolling. And on my end, I'll ensure action moves forward by the old fashioned Gygax way - moving time forward and rolling for random encounters!

How does this sound?

[enn.in.me]

I just ran a great big dungeon crawl for an Extra Life event and had a great time rolling for random monsters as the party searched for secret doors, rested, checked for traps, tried to open doors, etc. What I do think is important is that the random monsters should hurry the characters, not the players.

[Zhym]

That's the biggest weakness of the Tomb of Horrors: no wandering monsters to hurry people along.

Your plan sounds good to me. I'd just ask for warnings of how much time we're taking. Sometimes when we're discussing options or testing things out it's hard to know how much in-game time is passing.

[AleBelly]

Zhym - that's why I post the time at the end of every update. Please let me know if this isn't helping.

enn.in.me - I agree with this in principle. I won't accelerate time if tangible options are being discussed, but if nobody is moving things forward then that's really the only tool I have at my disposal. I'll not be a jackass about it, though.

[Keehnelf]

I'm fine with the idea of a traditional caller myself--I've got my hands full at the moment and trust my fellow players to mainly do what's fun and in the party's best interest as they see it, and I'm never too attached to a character to lose it as the result of our group trying to do what it's setting out to do.

[Nuke66]

You guys move a little fast for me to keep up, so Galan follows along, do or die.....

[AleBelly]

I just realized I hadn't yet locked the OOC III thread. While doing so, I happened to read the first few pages, which I had completely forgotten about. Much hilarity there.

[Zorroroaster]

We are pretty funny when provoked.

[ybn1197]

My apologies all. I am going to have to drop out of this one. Things progress far too quickly for me to keep up with. Happy gaming everyone.

[Zhym]

New strategy for the prison: whenever we get to a new room, send Watts in first.

[AleBelly]

My apologies all. I am going to have to drop out of this one. Things progress far too quickly for me to keep up with. Happy gaming everyone.

OK, thanks for letting us know.

I will NPC Watts. Afterwards, I'll make him available for hire. Just to let you all know.

[Zhym]

In the future, can we assume that we douse our lights when other light is available, to save fuel? Unless we specify otherwise?

[AleBelly]

Hmmm...I see why a player would want to do this. But, I can also see players getting angry if I "automatically" douse their light. Imagine a situation where there is ambient light in a dungeon scenario. If that ambient light is extinguished, it would then plunge the party into darkness. I can see angry players then saying "That's a dirty GM trick! I never said I wanted the light extinguished!"

This is one of the reasons I have the light sources listed in the brief summary at the end of most of my posts. It's easy enough for the players to see they have an active light source and announce that they want it quashed. I'll leave it to the players to announce they are dousing lights so that we don't run into the type of scenario described above.

[Zhym]

Okay. It's sort of a pain to keep track of the lighting situation. A DM usually makes it clear when we can't see. ("It is very dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.") We usually don't get the same obvious prompt when lights are no longer needed.

[Zhym]

Is the moon man in the same room as the rest of us (except Dandelion yet)? I thought so, but the mention of him being reluctant to cross the room made me wonder if I'm mistaken.